The Focus Bee Show
Katie Stoddart, award winning, international & transformative self-leadership coach, interviews world wide leaders & high performers on the topics of leadership & performance, such as: goals, habits, happiness, vision, focus, productivity, motivation, success, creativity, purpose, mindset etc If you want to boost your leadership and performance to the next level, this podcast is here for you! More information about Katie: www.thefocusbee.com
The Focus Bee Show
(283) Grace Marshall: Master Resilience: From Struggle to Success
(283) Master Resilience: From Struggle to Success with Grace Marshall
Grace Marshall, productivity ninja, coach, keynote speaker and award-winning author, shares her light on the topic of struggle.
On this episode, the magic we covered:
- Why we struggle and how we can manage it
- The three shifts of struggle
- How to cope with uncertainty
- Why struggle leads to innovation
And so much more!
VIDEO OF THE EPISODE:
🎬 YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/SgnWebwVzgs
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🎬 (187) The 5 Key Steps To Power Through Change with Eleanor Tweddell
ABOUT Grace Marshall:
Award-winning author Grace Marshall is known for her “refreshingly human” approach to productivity.
Her first book ’21 Ways to Manage the Stuff that Sucks Up Your Time’ was hailed by readers as the ideal book for people who don’t have time to read a time management book. Her second book, ‘How to be Really Productive’, won The Commuter’s Read category at the CMI 2017 Management Book of the Year Awards. Her third book Struggle has been described as honest, uplifting and “the antidote to fake positivity”.
Her work as a Productivity Ninja with global productivity training company, Think Productive, has taken her from Norway to New York, with stages ranging from corporate headquarters to a tent in the New Forest, helping thousands of people adopt new ways of working replacing stress, overwhelm and frustration with success, sanity and satisfaction.
Her practical advice on productivity and work-life balance has been featured in The Guardian, Forbes, Huffpost, CNN, London Economic Forum, Cityparents, and on BBC Radio.
CONNECT WITH Grace Marshall:
✨ WEBSITE: https://gracemarshall.com/
📷 INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/gracemarshallninja/
🌟 LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gracemarshall/
🌟 TWITTER: https://twitter.com/gracemarshall
🌟 FACEBOOK: https://www.facebook.com/gracemarshallcoaching
CONNECT WITH KATIE:
✨ LINKTREE: https://linktr.ee/thefocusbee
🎤 PODCAST: https://thefocusbeeshow.buzzsprout.com/
🌟 LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestoddart
📝 BLOG: https://thefocusbee.substack.com/
ABOUT THE HOST:
💫 Hi, I’m Katie – engineer turned entrepreneur. I am the founder of The Focus Bee, award-winning, international, high-performance company, that provides coaching, workshops, and trainings on sustainable high performance and leadership.
🚀 As a keynote speaker, I frequently speak at summits, conferences & podcasts. For my weekly podcast ‘The Focus Bee Show’, I interview thought leaders, speakers and authors.
🔥My mission is to empower people to lead with Alignment & Purpose & Joy so that they can Connect with the Magic & Thrive!
Welcome back to the Focus B show. This is Katie Stoddart here, aka the Focus B. And on this show I interview high performers and leaders around the world to discover their secrets on peak performance, productivity, mindfulness and leadership. So if you want to take your performance and your leadership to the next level, then you're in the right place. Listen up and and connect with the magic. It is such a joy to be here with Grace Marshall. Grace is a productivity ninja coach, keynote speaker and award winning author. She wrote the books how to be really productive, struggle and 21 ways to manage the stuff that sucks up your time. Her advice on productivity has been featured amongst others in the Guardian, Forbes and CNN. Such a joy to be with Grace Marshall. Grace, fantastic to have you here today. Thank you so much for joining the show.
Grace:Delighted to be here, Katie.
Katie:So excited about this. From one productivity enthusiast to another. And today I want to really look into one of the topics that you wrote a book about, struggle. I think it's amazing that you thought about this, reflected and wrote a book on it. Why struggle? Why did you begin by observing and writing and thinking about struggle?
Grace:It felt like the conversation that people were having in their heads but not having out in the open. So what I noticed was a lot of my coaching clients were coming to me after implementing a lot of the productivity advice that we both work with, and they were coming back. I've got that. I've got my inbox under control. I've got my to do list. It's working well for me. I'm still struggling. What's wrong? What's wrong with me? That's what they were saying. I started delving into this because I thought if it keeps coming up, there's something curious happening here. And what I noticed once I dived into some of those conversations a little bit deeper was that we tend to have this thing where we think of struggle as almost being the opposite of productivity. So it's like I've gone wrong, I'm struggling, therefore something wrong is happening. Either I'm in the wrong place or maybe there's something wrong with me. But actually, the more that I dived into these conversations, the more that I realized it might not be the place that we'd plan to be. But there's often, in fact, maybe even always something useful we can use out of this. And actually, if we're willing to pay attention to the thing that we're struggling with, we can sometimes find that it's almost the birthplace of some of our best work. It's where we come up with our most surprising ideas, our innovations. It's where we improve our processes or improve ourselves. And often, like I said, they're not the places that we choose, but if we can choose to pay attention to it, we can actually get a lot out of it.
Katie:Interesting, this idea that we think that struggle is the opposite of productive. And I've thought that sometimes in some ways, in the sense that if you're struggling on something, maybe emotionally, that you're not processing, and then you choose to be distracted and scroll LinkedIn and do little things here and there, maybe be on the phone, whatever it is, then it is counterproductive. On the other hand, I found that if in those moments I think, okay, brain dump, brainstorm, let me write things out. What are possible options? Or if it's some sort of high emotional distress, then take fully a break of a day or more, then they can be very productive. So have you come also to a similar conclusion, which is that is how we process and deal with the struggle, rather than the struggle itself that defines if it's productive or not.
Grace:Exactly. So I talk about struggle is almost when we hit struggle, we feel like we're in a tunnel, and when we're in a tunnel, we get tunnel vision. So we get fixated on finding the exits. So that's where the distractions come in. It's like this doesn't feel productive. Oh, you know what? I'm going to go check emails and feel like I'm doing something over there, that kind of thing. But it's also where procrastination might come from. It's like, this is too hard. I'm going to go back the way I came, I'm going to avoid dealing with this. Or we get onto that sort of hustle mentality of like, I just need to work my way through it. And so that's where we can end up fighting harder. So it's not that we're avoiding the struggle, but we're treating the struggle as a battle to fight, as like an obstacle to overcome. And one of the things I talk about in struggle is what if instead of looking for a light at the end of the tunnel, we shine a light in the middle of the tunnel instead? Because maybe there's work to be done here and by doing that, we can start to pay attention. What am I actually dealing with here? So why does this feel hard? Maybe it's because I haven't done it before. Maybe it's just hard. It's not wrong. And even knowing that means I don't need to look for something else to make me feel more productive, actually, this is the work. This isn't the thing that's getting in the way of my work. This is the work I need to pay attention here. Other times, it might be, okay, this thing isn't working. There's an obstacle, there's a disruption, there's a setback. It's not going as I planned. Now, if we're in that fight or flight mentality, it'd be just, how do I get rid of this and get back on track? But if we start to look at it with maybe curiosity, we can start to go, okay, what's going on here? Why has this not gone as we'd thought? And I think it was Matthew said in black box thinking, who talks about sort of failure being a deviation from the. From the norm. And any deviation is interesting. So if you think of scientists here, if they run experiments in a lab, it's when the deviations happen that you go, oh, okay, something interesting is happening now. And so what if we were able to take that same approach to our work to go, okay, that's a deviation. Things are not going to go. If I've got everything planned and I want it all running like clockwork and efficient, obviously that's going to derail the plan. But if I go, oh, that's interesting, what's going on here? We might find that that's the place of innovation, that's the place where we can improve, where we can grow, where we can just come up with something completely new that wouldn't have been there if everything was smooth sailing.
Katie:This is all music to my ears. I think it's wonderful. I love what you said about how we can either sort of procrastinate or we go into hustle hard mode. And I literally had a day like that yesterday. I almost never do this because I, you know, work in a way that I believe is focused and productive. And I take breaks and I take my lunch walk, but I was in that sort of full on hustle fast mode while writing about the importance of the old trading rhythm breaks. So I did take still a lunch break and a bit of an afternoon break. I still did a bit, but I was in more hustle mode than usual. So I think maybe the question here would be for people listening and thinking, yes, okay, I either procrastinate or I go to full on hustle mode. I need to shine the light in the tunnel. But sometimes because of cortisol rush, adrenaline, maybe a big project or a deadline or some sort of emotional distress. It's like sometimes even the knowledge I have the knowledge and I didn't manage yesterday isn't sufficient. So how can we remember and have the discipline to implement this in moments where maybe the stakes are high or the pressure is very high?
Grace:Absolutely. So there's something I write and talk about with struggle, and I call it the three ships. So you may know the tagline first for struggle is a surprising truth, beauty, and opportunity hidden in lives. I'm going to say shiftier moments, but it's because I'm not going to swear on your podcast, but you could kind of decide what that other word is. So I talk about the three shifts, or you can be much more direct with your language. But the first of that is o shift. It's just going, oh, shift. Something's happened. Something's gone wrong. Something's unexpected. And that recognition, I think, is really important, because what we sometimes do is something's happened. We need to find a problem. Sorry, there's a problem. We need to find a solution. We jump straight into solution finding mode, and that's where we end up going. Either that hustle or the procrastination, because that feels like a good solution at the time. Whereas if we start with the recognition first, what we can do is actually just recognize, okay, something's happened. What is my go to response with that? Is it the procrastination? Is it the hustle? Harder? And actually, both of those are two sides of the same coin. It's basically a fear response. So I call this high functioning fear because it doesn't always look like fear. It doesn't look like I'm scared. It can feel really productive. It can look high performing. Somebody could be like you. If someone was a fly on the wall watching you yesterday, they'd be like, whoa, she's getting a lot done there. And so it can look really high functioning. But actually, if we're honest with ourselves, what's probably driving whatever that action is, is fear. And so if you think about it from an evolutionary perspective, fear is designed to remove the danger. It's designed to get us away from the danger and bring us back to safety. And so fight is about what's a weak spot in my enemy. How do I defeat this thing? Flight is about how do I run away, make myself safe, and hide and escape. And then you also have two others, so you've got freeze, which in nature would be, let me play dead, and then the danger will pass me by. But actually in work, if you stay very still, you get noticed. The danger doesn't pass you by, so it's more likely to look like maybe busyness. You know, I'm just gonna. I'm too busy dealing with all this stuff over here. I haven't got time to deal with that thing that feels like a struggle. So freeze can look like there's a lot going on. It can look like busyness, but it's that kind of almost stillness emotion. I'm so busy, but actually, I'm just staying still with what's familiar. And then the slightly lesser known response is the fawn response, which is basically, if you imagine an animal in the wild saying to its predator, please don't eat me, I'll be your friend. That's the people pleasing side of it. It's where we become overly accommodating, where we say yes to everything and maybe no to ourselves, or where we tell people what we think they want to hear instead of what we actually think. And so it's really useful to recognize our go tos because we all have them. And sometimes it's a combination. Sometimes it depends on the context. But when you can recognize yourself in fear mode, we can then choose if that action is serving us or not. So, yes, you can hit deadlines in fight mode. There's a good energy to hitting deadlines in fight mode, but maybe you can't have a really thoughtful conversation with someone where you're really listening because fight mode will put you on the defensive really easily. Or you might be in fight mode, say, if you go into sales meeting in fight mode thinking, I need to win this client, that might stop you from actually being able to listen enough to go, oh, that's not actually what they're asking for. This is what they're asking for. So maybe we can shift our conversation over there. And so there's all sorts of different things that, well, fear basically stops us from doing because it gives us that narrow, narrow vision, whereas often with the kind of work that we need to do, we need a wider vision. If you need to innovate, you need to be able to see lots of possibilities, not just who's right, who's wrong. If you're building relationships or collaborating or partnerships, any kind of relationships, you need to be able to see multiple perspectives, and it's really hard to do that if you're on the defensive. So, yeah, that's a very long answer to your short question, which is, start with that recognition. First, notice how your high functioning fear is kicking in. And then step two would be to switch it for curiosity. So curiosity is like the antidote to fear. It's the alternative to fear. So fear gives us that narrow vision. Curiosity gives us a wider vision. And so rather than who's right, who's wrong, rather than what do I need to do to defeat this? It's what's going on here. This person who isn't responding how I expected them to, what's going on for them? What's the need that's underlying that emotion or that response? What's going on for me? And the more that you can dial into that curiosity, the more that you can notice opportunities, notice areas for improvement, but also places for connection rather than winning an argument.
Katie:Yes, I'm nodding along. Okay, so we have the first phase, the second phase. I'm still thinking about the third one. But before we get to that, I only just learned the term born last week. It's so funny how sometimes we learn something new and we hear about it four or five times afterwards and we'd never heard it before. I was talking with a friend about the parasympathetic nervous system that I didn't realize had these two aspects, one of them with the rest and digest, but then the other one was actually freeze and faun. And so I always thought, as a person with a very high sympathetic mode or more often in the sympathetic side who've spend my life, or at least the last 510 years, meditating, being in nature, calming myself down to tap into the parasympathetic nervous system, I thought, that's it. Parasympathetic nervous system balance for me, at least. But now I realize from talking with my friend that there's also this freeze and form. So we have both great stuff in both sides. The sympathetic nervous system is also where we take action or we move forward. But if it's too much, can lead to flight or fight. And then the parasympathetic rest, digest, we relax, but also if it's unbalanced, freeze and fawn. So I thought that was interesting, that the people pleasing side of thing is a high functioning type of fear.
Grace:Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
Katie:So let's get onto that third phase. So first phase is the o shift, and it's just realizing what is happening, having that awareness. Then we get curious antidote to fear, love that it gets us out of our tunnel vision. It sheds a light in the tunnel. And what's the third phase?
Grace:The third phase is holy shift. So it's a revelation. It's what we discover out of that. So if you go back to some of our familiar stories of innovation. For example, the post it note. The post it note was invented by Spencer Silver at three M, who was actually trying to create a super strong adhesive. So he was trying to create something for use in the aircraft construction industry. And what he got instead was a super weak adhesive. So you don't want your plane to hold and then unstick itself. And so it was pretty useless for the kind of purpose that he was, he was trying to go for. But what came out of that, that weak adhesive eventually became the glue that went on to post it notes. Another example, there's a story I tell of another person having a bad day who is basically ironing and accidentally rested that iron on a pencil. The ink shot at the pen went all over the ironing board, just ruining the clothes and making a huge mess everywhere. And, yeah, so it's safe to say that person was having a bad day, but the person holding the iron was also an engineer who worked at Canon. And that ink that came out of the pen became the inspiration for Canon's first inkjet printer. So, yeah, we often look at these stories, innovation, and go, that's just genius. And in hindsight, it does look like genius. But I think it's useful to remember that in the moment, it feels a lot like frustration. It feels like having a bad day, things are not going to plan, it feels like struggle. And so when you recognize that, that means that when we hit struggle, we don't. It's not necessarily about making the frustration go away, it's recognize the struggle. But actually, if we're able to enable that curiosity, activate that curiosity, what that can then lead to is that holy shift moment. It's that opportunity, that innovation, whatever, in hindsight looks like genius. And it's not just with product innovation as well. It can be with business growth. Quite often when you speak to entrepreneurs, I'm sure you've had similar stories where sometimes it's our worst client or that project that flopped, or that thing that just felt like an absolute, utter failure. Or for a lot of people, actually, redundancy is their first step into entrepreneurship. It's often those moments, those dips where you just go, what the heck? But actually, out of those moments have come surprising turn. And I think often those discoveries don't come unless we're surprised. And that's one of the benefits of struggle. It's a deviation, it's a defiance of our expectations. And so there's often something, some kind of discovery we can come from, that we can take from that. And even in the corporate workplace, a lot of teams that I work with, often we find those places of difficult conversations, so where you need to give feedback that might not be welcome or you've got a place of conflict or disagree, disagreement, or even just a mistake, somebody's made a mistake. How we deal with that mistake can either create a fear environment or it can create a curiosity environment. And if we create that curiosity environment, that's where we can find that those places can be the building blocks of better processes and better relationships. Often we find that teams who can handle those moments of struggle well together, they can actually build stronger relationships rather than even stronger than when things are just plain sailing. And same goes through for customer service as well. If you can deal with a complaint really, really well, you can build much stronger brand loyalty than if you'd have done everything perfect to begin with.
Katie:I'll never look at struggle again in the same way because this is very different to just saying, oh, learn from your failures, because that's true, and that is very important and it's a really good point. And every time something doesn't work out, pausing and saying, okay, what is my lesson here? What can I learn from? It is great, but sometimes I feel in some moments of high intensity stress, just thinking, oh, this will be a learning. It doesn't really work. It can work afterwards as a way of processing what has happened. But on the moment, it can feel like struggle. It can feel hard and frustrating and overwhelming. And so just saying, oh, there's a lesson here, doesn't always help. Sometimes it can, but not always. And I think if instead we remember, okay, but I'm seeing struggle as sort of the enemy here, right. In some ways it's sort of the enemy. And our fear is telling us, you know, flee the enemy and find a solution instead of thinking, okay, this is just companion. It's neither good nor bad, but it can have actually a really positive effect. And the example you were saying about people starting their businesses after being made redundant, or the ink at canon or the post it, those all show that this deviation from the norm can be if we choose for it to be or if we see that it is an opportunity. Because I think retrospectively, there are a lot of times in my business, obviously, and in the people I coach that were very challenging. But when you see it afterwards, you think, oh, but that needed to happen, because then it was during that time I learned whatever it is, patience, resilience, how to market myself. I mean, you can name it, right, a million different things. But on the moment it feels just like struggle. What would you, how would you define the word struggle? Or how would you, would you define it as an emotional state? What's your sort of definition of struggle?
Grace:Oh, that's such a good question. I don't, I don't even think I've been asked that before. So let's think. So I think picking up from what you said, we see struggle as the enemy. So I think what struggle isn't is the enemy. It's not a battle. It's not a trap to avoid or an obstacle to overcome. And it's also not just a thing to endure, because I think a lot of that sort of hustle culture just goes, well, of course you stuff's going to happen. Of course you're going to hit struggle. You just need to keep going and get through it. And I say, but that's still missing the point. I think struggle, for me is it's the birthplace of some of our best work. It's the place where we grow. It's also the place. It's a community. It's a meeting place for community as well, because actually, when we are able to have useful, open conversations about struggle with each other, when you've got safe places to talk about struggle, that's when you can find those discoveries, and that's when you can grow collectively as well as individually. So how would I define struggle? I think it is, it's an unexpected circumstance that we find ourselves in, and it can either be the thing that we endure or it can be the thing that we explore and embrace and discover.
Katie:Nice, unexpected circumstance, nice. And entrepreneurship. But life in general, it's full of that. And I think part of the struggle, part of the challenge for many people is the fact that we don't like uncertainty. And so I think a big struggle for many people and companies in general is this uncertainty. And we saw it during the pandemic. We see it now in the age of AI. We see it all the time, this fear of uncertainty, this not knowing what will happen, et cetera. How do you support people who are struggling with uncertainty? Because I would say that is a very common type of struggle, whether it's business or the AI or they're not sure about their career, or maybe a company has just been bought and there's a merge and they don't have their position, they'll stay or not. All these types of situations, or let's say a subcategory of struggle, there's specific type of struggle. Call it uncertainty struggle. How do you support people with dealing with that specific one.
Grace:So one of the big things, one of the big reasons why we find uncertainty such a struggle is because there's so much we don't know. And we have historically, culturally, professionally equated knowing with competence, expertise, professionalism. It's like people hire me for what I know. We follow leaders because we believe they know where they're going. We follow teachers to teach us what they know. So knowing has become like, we talk about the knowledge economy as well, don't we? So it's become like the core of what's valuable at work. And that's why we find uncertainty so difficult, because we're heading into uncharted territory. We're heading into the place where we don't know. And we find even just the words I don't know can be such a struggle that if you find. So what we find is that you'll get a whole load of people who go into imposter syndrome to go, I don't know. So therefore I'm in the wrong place. And so they back off from that uncertainty. That's your flight mode, basically. Your fight mode, on the other hand, is I have to know, I know best. I have all the answers. And if they don't, they're going to make it up and they're going to sound really confident about it because they believe that's what being a leader is all about, that actually, in order to be respected as a leader, they have to have the answers that they equate that to being a leader. I have to have the answers. And so they make it up. But what that means is that they're far less likely to actually listen to the people they're leading or to change their mind. When you get new information, what you go into when you're dealing with change and uncertainty. And so neither of those are very helpful. So I think one of the first things that's useful to do is to change our relationship with those words. I don't know. So rather than seeing it as a sign that we're in the wrong place, if we think about it, if you navigating new territory, you're pioneering you a new thing, you're here to learn something new. Doesn't, I don't know, mean you're in the right place then? So rather than seeing it as a sign that you're in the wrong place, actually, let's see it as a sign that we're on the right track for discovery. Yeah. Where we're on the right track. So maybe it's not about having the answers. Maybe it's about asking the questions, what are we here to find out? Rather than, I don't know when that's a problem and all of that. Those are ways of moving from that fear space to curiosity. Because when we can get curious about what's unknown and what's uncertain, we're then priming ourselves for discovery, which is the whole point of being an uncertainty. It's like we're here to discover. We're here to build something new. We're here to find new territory and find out what's this new place that we're dealing with here and this new thing. And so that puts us in a position where we're much more able to be open, to be curious, to innovate, to be empathetic as well, and to connect with people, which are all the qualities that we need. If we're navigating uncertainty rather than I have to know or back off, I'm not qualified.
Katie:So what I'm taking from most of what we're talking about is if we're able to shift from that fear or that. I don't know, or the uncertainty and the overall struggle to a place of curiosity, then we're halfway there, right? Or then we're three quarters of the way there.
Grace:Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And that curiosity will then, like, open doors to other things. So in a difficult conversation, for example, curiosity will open the door to compassion. Because if you start getting curious about the person you're having this difficult conversation with and going, what's going on for them? Why would they write that email like that? You know, what would put someone in a position where they thought that would be a good thing to say, to get curious about the other person. That activates your compassion. It activates your empathy, and you're then able to find some new common ground that you can move forward from, rather than just be an impasse where you're fighting a battle out of everything, of.
Katie:What you shared today, I think it's such a different way of looking at struggle. And struggle can be applied to so many different things, whether it's dealing with uncertainty, feeling stuck somewhere, analysis, paralysis, perfectionism. We could have covered about a million things. Overwhelm. All of these can be forms of struggle, and all of them can apply that method with the three steps. First, pausing, awareness, curiosity, and then actually moving forward from that place of curiosity. What would you like to leave the audience with? I can't believe half an hour has come by like this. What would be the last piece of advice for people listening?
Grace:I'd say take your time. Because that high functioning fear instinct is part of a very, very well honed evolutionary mechanism. You can't always prevent it from kicking in. It's designed to keep us alive. But the thing that's designed to keep us alive can also keep us blind. And so if you are in a genuine situation of life and death, thank your fight instincts or flight instincts because they're going to get you out of trouble. But if that is kicking in when you are in a really important meeting or in front of a customer or on stage, all of those things where you're like, actually, I need my human skills here. I don't need my fight and flight skills. I don't need my. I call it bear mode. Like, if a bear is chasing after you, like, you go into bear mode, I don't need that right now. One of the biggest things that puts us into fight and flight mode is stress. It's that time pressure. It's when we think that we need to react very quickly, because that fight and flight mode is like, I can do quick. I can do quick really, really quickly. And so sometimes it feels uncounter, intuitive. When there's a lot going on, when the pressure is on and your deadlines are mounting up and then you get a curveball, the last thing you're going to feel like you want to do is to stop and to pause and to take your time. Right. That's because all your instincts are telling you this is a threat, do something. But if you notice that and catch it, you can then go, okay, does that instinct actually serve me here? And there will be situations where the answer is yes, which is great, go for it. But if the answer is no, or I'm not sure it does, then that gives you the opportunity to go, okay, I need to shift away from this high functioning fear and then therefore, I need to take time. And it's okay that this thing is screaming at me, but it's not a life threatening, so it can carry on screaming. It's fine. I don't need to react to it. And I'm deviating a little bit here now, but I remember reading there was something on Twitter, I still call it Twitter, but the other day, which was, how do I tell my fight and flight instinct that it's designed for running away from a bear and not for dealing with my emails. Right. So, yeah, when we. When we can acknowledge and notice. Okay, email rage right here. Okay, step away from the computer. Do not press send. I'm not going to feel better afterwards, create that pause, create that moment for reflection. That can be an internal thing where there's all sorts of things that we can do to help calm our nervous system back down, like physical things that we can do. It can also be a communal thing. So you, if you've got a good environment in your team where you can have those struggle conversations together or have tunnel conversations together, it's like you can grab someone and go, help me work through this. I'm in a tunnel. Just hit this struggle, help me shine a light on this, and you can get someone to help talk you through being curious about it rather than trying to get you out of the tunnel. So these are all things that we can put in place, but it all starts from actually giving yourself time and telling yourself it's okay to take that time to get those human skills back online.
Katie:Beautiful. Thank you so much, Grace. I've gotten so much from today's episode and I know the people listening will get just as much, if not more, out of today's episode. Thank you so much for being on the show today. Thank you.
Grace:My pleasure.
Katie:Thank you so much for tuning in today to the focusbee show. I would absolutely love to hear your feedback, so let me know in an. App or review or YouTube comment what. Was most valuable for you. And feel free to share this episode with a friend or a family member. Wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused day ahead. I.
