(279) David Allen: TEAM: Getting Things Done with Others

(279) TEAMS: Getting Things Done with Others, with David Allen

David Allen, world renown Productivity Expert, author of the reference book “Getting Things Done” has released a new book, with co-author Edward Lamont:  “TEAMS: Getting Things Done with Others”

Some of the awesome stuff we cover in this episode: 

-        5 Core steps of the GTD Framework

-        Importance of Confronting Reality: Hard Choices Easy Life

-        Purpose & Principles: Importance of working standards & principles

-        The challenges with the vision

-        Capture & Team Sweep – do not use your mind as your office! 

And so much more! 

VIDEO OF THE EPISODE: 

🎬 YouTube Video: https://youtu.be/wpDlXG3wzNo 

 BOOK:

📖 Check out my book on Focus: The Magic of Focus

RELEVANT LINKS: 

📘 TEAM: Gettings Things Done with Others

📖 Getting Things Done

WATCH NEXT: 

🎬 (125) Make Space & Unplug for Optimal Productivity with Daniel Sih

🎬 (173) Take Your Productivity to The Next Level with Productivityist Mike Vardy

🎬 (185) Take Up & Implement The Four Day Workweek with Rob Krecak

 EXCLUSIVE: 

🔥If you want to access exclusive VIP High Performance Coaching – contact me here: https://katiestoddart.com/contact/

🎯FREE Weekly Magic & Focus Insights: https://tinyurl.com/WeeklyFocusBee

🚀 Download your FREE Full Focus Guide: https://tinyurl.com/TheFocusGuide

ABOUT David Allen:

David Allen is the creator of the GTD methodology. He has over forty years experience in consulting, training, and coaching in U.S. and global organizations!
 
 David is the author of six books:
 Getting Things Done: the Art of Stress-Free Productivity (2001, 2015 revised edition)
 Ready for Anything: 52 Productivity Principles for Work and Life (2003)
 Making It All Work: Winning at the Game of Work and the Business of Life (2008)
 Getting Things Done for Teens (2018)
 Getting Things Done Workbook (2019)
 Team: Getting Things Done with Others (2024)
 
CONNECT WITH David Allen:

✨ WEBSITE: https://gettingthingsdone.com/
 
 🌟 LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidallengtd/

CONNECT WITH ME:

✨ LINKTREE: https://linktr.ee/thefocusbee

🎤 PODCAST: https://thefocusbeeshow.buzzsprout.com/

🌟 LINKEDIN: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katiestoddart

📝 BLOG: https://thefocusbee.substack.com/

WHO AM I? 

💫 Hi, I’m Katie – engineer turned entrepreneur. I am the founder of The Focus Bee. 

🔥My mission is to empower people to lead with Alignment & Purpose & Joy!

Transcript

Katie: 0:00

Welcome back to the Focus B show. This is Katie Stoddart here, aka the Focus B. And on this show I interview high performers and leaders around the world to discover their secrets on peak performance, productivity, mindfulness and leadership. So if you want to take your performance and your leadership to the next level, then you're in the right place. Listen up and. And connect with the magic. So excited to be here today with David Allen. David is most known for his book getting things done, and he's just released a new book called Team getting things done with others. David Allen has decades of experience in optimizing personal productivity and now also looking into team productivity. Real honour and real joy to be here with him today. David, such a joy to have you here. Thank you so much for joining today.

David: 1:05

Hey, Katie. My pleasure. Thank you for the invitation.

Katie: 1:08

Yeah, I loved your book, getting things done with others, teams getting things done with others. So you co wrote with Ed Lamont. Really enjoyed it. And my first question is, given that you were more of an expert per se in the personal productivity world, what came to you as a surprise when you were doing this work on teams? What was something that you didn't expect to find?

David: 1:33

No, there weren't really any surprises, Katie, because I knew that the principles of getting things done, even for personal productivity, applied to the teams. I just didn't know how to frame it and how to package it and how to objectify it in the way until Ed and I got together four years ago and said, let's see if we could fill this gap, you know, about what's the work? But it's all the same principles about teams as personal productivity. If I walked into your team right now, whoever that is, you know, and you probably got more than one in terms of trying to get something done with somebody else, whether that's a life partner or a colleague or an assistant or whatever, first question is, what's got the team's attention? What's not yet on cruise control? So that's the capture step, which is critical for personal productivity as well. Hey, what has your attention personally? Right. And then what do you need to do to get that off your mind? Because if it's on your mind, it's not happening. You know that that means there's some, you're not appropriately engaged with it yet in terms of decisions still need to be made about it. Results of that thinking or decision making haven't been parked in places you trust. Same is true with the team. So these things, I guess it wasn't a surprise. It was more of an aha. These same principles apply across the board. They're differently applied in terms of implemented with a team than you would personally. But you need both. They need personal productivity, and then the people then need to be able to work in a team context as well. But the team contexts are the ones that are often screwed up. So, you know, we've coached thousands of people over the years in personal productivity, and then they walk back into very dysfunctional environments, and so their personal productivity is more defensive. How can I survive that? This teenying doesn't work. This situation doesn't work. People are dropping things flowing through the cracks. They're not keeping agreements. So we said, okay, how do we distill those? The essence of what the getting things done principles were in a team context. Short version of a long story, but that, that's where it came from. So no big surprise, other than how hard it was to try to distill all of this in a manual that would be inclusive enough, exclusive enough and universal and timeless. These are the principles that'll be true when we fly to Jupiter in 29 or try to get off of Jupiter in 2019. The same things are there. So I think what Ed and I did, and I think we did a good job of distilling it down to the stocks, that it is not going to change in terms of what works and what doesn't work quite so well when you're trying to get stuff done with other people.

Katie: 4:45

Yes. And it's true that at the beginning of the book, you explained that we really need both that personal excellence, but also the team mechanics to be in place and work well. Must have been quite nice to have seen that all the core principles of GTD also worked within a team context. And I think one aspect that I've thought about since reading your book is getting things done is, you know, the art of stress free productivity. So I was thinking the stress free part comes from having that clear structure, the processes in place, clear purpose that we can also talk about in a bit in the vision, clear roles defined. What have you seen that's maybe a hidden source of stress that people don't often think about or don't often take into account?

David: 5:32

Well, there are probably several, you know, every one of those aspects can be. Can. Can have stuff go off the rails. First of all, if you haven't captured everything that has the team's attention, then you're going to have what I call your analysis for people in the bathroom thinking about stuff that they should have talked about in the meeting. Right. Lack of openness, lack of objectifying, what actually has people's attention, what's not on cruise control in terms of what our team is about, lack of purpose. Do we know why we're a team? You're a team because the team is there because it's trying to do something as a team. But oftentimes that gets lost or abbreviated or not kept current or not kept alive and well with the people on the team, especially if you've got new people coming on the team, do they know why they're there? They know the purpose of what the team is about because that should drive every decision. Is this on purpose or is this not in terms of what's happening? No. The big one, Katie, is lack of role clarification. Is this yours or is this mine? Who's dealing with this thing that this change that showed up, this problem that showed up, this opportunity that showed up? Whose is that? Who owns the team? Because if that's unclear, then you don't know how often you need to look at what pieces of the team and what's going on. So there's all kinds of things that could create some dysfunctionality there. I don't know that any one of them is the major one. Every team is very different in that regard. So that's why we didn't try to create some sort of a universal template for every team. Because, you know, if you're already on some sort of a team, you and your life partner, you already. You're already, you know, somebody's trash, personal, somebody's a dog person, somebody's, you know, you know, you probably generated, you know, some, some level of assumptions about who's handling what, you know, as a group. But in organizational teens, oftentimes, that's very, very unclear. And as you know, whenever two or more responsible, nobody is right. So who owns, who owns that piece? Who owns the team? Who owns. Who's watching all this I can do on alone, but read the book. As you know, the book is full of all the things that that could potentially be improved, elaborated on and enhanced.

Katie: 8:17

I loved when you explained in the book the team could even be two people, and like you said, the example of marriage or even CEO with their secretary. And you also give the example in the book of you and your wife planning your wedding. And it's true that role clarification, but also purpose of different projects and different tools that you share in the book, can be applied also in the context of a marriage or different relationships. And I thought that was fascinating. I'd never really thought that we were a team. It sounds terrible, but I use the word team more in a company context. And then I thought, it's true, all the core principles can be applied for different things, like you said, allocating of roles and clarifying that and capturing all the things that need to get done in the household or medical or business, because my husband and I run the company together. So that's a whole other area, too. I think that's a very interesting part. And I like the term you use, the team sweep for the capture element, and so really going through all the different elements. So, yes, like you said, the five core steps of the getting things done framework, the capture, clarify, organize, reflect, and engage. I'm saying this for the listeners, not for you, David. I mentioned that you dream about it at night. Those five steps could all be used in teams context. And what you mentioned in the book is that most people come for those five steps to get things a bit in order. But the reason they stay is for the five horizons. And that's where you talk about the different horizons, starting with horizon five of purpose and principles. And here you touched upon something that I never reflected on. So we've got the high level principles guidance that, for me, sounded a bit like value, sort of core behaviors have in place. But then you had a more granular standards, working standards. So why do you feel both of these matter? How do they relate, and how can people start to put these in place? Because I think a lot of teams don't have core principles. And the granular, more granular working standards in place.

David: 10:27

Yeah. Well, example, our company core principal, we support each other in our personal professional growth granular. We pay for people's trainings in that regard. Right. So there's a core principle and there's a more practical policy that's day to day. So, you know, you could find myriad examples of that kind of thing. Yeah, we really like to care for each other. We have open communication. Yeah. What does open communication mean? What's your policy about people being honest with each other and direct with each other in terms of issues they have? So you could unpack all of these in multiple ways, but those are examples of. Yeah, there's a basic principle, and you and I could agree on the principle, but then we go, okay, yeah, how does that look? What are we actually going to do that's going to manifest that principle or express that principle, and then you have a policy or a standard about that?

Katie: 11:37

Well, my brain is thinking at the same time how I can implement this in my relationship I'm thinking we've got the principles and then we have the working standard. And my husband is into all the, he's an engineer, so he loves rules and structure. So if I come to him, and I think I've thought about the policies around yesterday we declared to each other after a conversation with a friend that we were going to do radical honesty. Now you think we already do this. We shook hands on it. We said, radical honesty. Let's see how long it'll last. Less than 24 hours so far. But now I'm thinking that's a principle. I'm thinking, what are some of the policies and how can we check it? So I already said, for instance, radical honesty, as much as we are aware of, because sometimes you don't realize it's not true because you genuinely believe that you're feeling fine, but actually you're not. You're stressed and you don't see it yourself. So I thought, okay, radical honesty within our awareness. But then we could have some policies in place to confirm that. So what would be if we put this onto sort of a more company level and instead of radical honesty, we call this transparency, for instance, what could be some policies or rules in place, some working standards that would go towards that, for example.

David: 12:57

Rudely said, but no more your analysis. Come on, can we get everything on the table? And also there's nothing wrong with what people have attention about or want to express. So a lot of what I've learned in the last 14 or 15 years and implementing bureaucracy in our company is that giving people space and not having any judgmental aspect about something that has somebody's attention. So the fact that somebody has their attention or something doesn't mean they're bad, doesn't mean the situation is bad. It means they've noticed something that's either off or an opportunity or a challenge or something. And the freedom to bring that out and the freedom, even if you're an introvert, the freedom to bring that up as opposed to letting the loudmouth extroverts around the table run the media. So those are very specific policies about, hey, let's go around the room here. Everybody say what's on your mind, what's got your attention right now, and don't let anybody interrupt you. Those are very specific policies that then support what you're talking about. Transparency, no judgment. Let's just get it out in the open so then we can deal with it. So it's not handled subterranean or similar. But that's pretty subtle stuff. Pretty subtle stuff.

Katie: 14:37

Subtle and you need a high level of psychological safety. So I guess that all begins if people don't feel safe in the room. If, for example, the CEO is there and they feel that, I don't know, he micromanages or he judges their behavior or whatever it is, they might not feel ready to open up. So maybe it begins with psychological safety.

David: 15:01

It does. And psychological safety is based upon trust. I trust that. Whatever I can tell you, that's okay. And by the way, just a little interesting sidebar radical honesty doesn't mean you need to share everything. There's some things you need to keep private and should be so it's not required. Unless you think it is, but that's really not required. There are certain things you just need to keep under the tent in terms of your own life, your own style, your own habits, your own whatever you do. And you share what seems to be necessary to share in the business of life or the business of business. But those are very different than your business with yourself or can be. Right? So don't go trying to legislate something that you're going to then feel guilty about it. There are certain things you are not going to share because you don't feel comfortable sharing it or you feel it's too private, even with your life partner. Sorry. I'm 78, so I've been around the block a bit. Yeah.

Katie: 16:10

It's funny because I was thinking about self honestly before this conversation. I was thinking how this is an important part of productivity and getting things done. Because if you capture, clarify, organize everything, reflect on what needs to be done, but then still choose to engage with the easy wins or the things that you feel are urgent or whatever it is, and ignore the important aspects. I feel a lot in the coaching that I do that I've supported people with, seeing the things that they have hidden from themselves so that they actually could take action on it and move forward.

David: 16:47

Yeah. Well, the way I say that is, once you pay appropriate attention to what has your attention, you find out what really has your attention. Right. Which then once you pay appropriate attention to that, you'll find out what really has your attention. So it's another version of the five whys or the five, you know, all those things that kind of get you into. Okay, wait a minute. What's the underlying underneath issue? Dynamic tension, opportunity or whatever. Yeah. No kidding.

Katie: 17:20

Yes. And given that my company's the focus b, and I'm all about focus, and I gave the workshop this morning on focus, I feel that that resonates deeply. I've found that the more I've written about focus, when I wrote my book on focus and the podcast, et cetera, I feel that there's more and more layers. And it's what you said once, you know, and pay attention to what you've been ignoring or hiding from yourself, it uncovers more and more layers. And when things are clear, sometimes it's painful, but then you can move forward.

David: 17:54

Yeah, no kidding. Well said.

Katie: 17:57

The pain is also there when you ignore it. It's just a more subtle background pain. And when you face things facing reality, it's also something that was discussed in the six pillars of self esteem that I thought was brilliant, which is your self esteem increases when you start to confront reality. But you also speak about this. You also speak about the importance of confronting reality in your book.

David: 18:18

Yeah, for sure. No, that's over all my 40 years of both consulting and coaching and training and with folks. Oftentimes the sticking point is lack of clarity about what current reality is. Oh, all the people are leaving. Yeah. Who's leaving? Well, you know, Jose thought he might want to find another job. Oh, that's not all the people are leaving. And most people generalize and exaggerate all kinds of stuff just for their own egotistical or their own agendas, you know, for whatever reason. But wait, what's the reality? We're losing money. How do you know you're losing money? How much money with. By what? Oh, well, they're cutting our budget. And does that mean losing money? Are they going to be able to make more money given what. And so people are oftentimes in their personal agendas, especially in teams running all kinds of stuff that a real current reality discussion. Well, what's really true? How much money are we losing? Based upon what kind of data? Based upon what kind of parameters? Based upon what kind of whatever. Anyway, yeah, no, that's another big issue out there for sure.

Katie: 19:46

And I think this comes back to that fourth step reflection, because if you create the time and space to reflect properly, then you can actually observe reality properly. And then again, that comes back to this stress free productivity. Because if you see things more clearly and your mind isn't exaggerating it now, in a team, maybe someone is doing this because they have an agenda. But if we're doing this on our own, it could just be out of fear. It could just be because we're meddled and confused. So if we take that time to reflect, then we're able to see a little more clearly some of the things we have been. Yeah. Dramatizing maybe in our own mind.

David: 20:25

And, you know, it's something you settled just a short time ago. You have to decide between the instant pain versus the long term pain. The instant pain. Oh, God, I gotta admit, this is what's going on. Great. If you didn't do that, the long term pain of ignoring it and then having to deal with the consequences of that, it's gonna be a lot more difficult than the front end pain. It's like exercise. Oh, I have to go put on this clothes and I gotta go out in the rain. I gotta go, you know, whatever. That's the front end that you're going to have to swallow. And then on the back end you go, wow, that fits so good. And that's great. It works. If you didn't do that, you. God, I'm good. I'm a fat slob. I feel really guilty I'm not exercising, you know? Yes, strange equation. Front end engagement requirements versus back end fix requirements.

Katie: 21:28

Yes. Hard choices, easy life. Easy choices, hard life. I think that sometimes, but then after a while, they no longer feel like hard choices. After a while it feels like maybe not the easy choice, but the most logical choice. Or for example, exercise. Or a lot of examples like having a hard conversation, but that, you know, afterwards you can breathe and move on. It doesn't feel as much like the hot choice. It feels like it still can be hard and a bit painful or difficult, but it feels the right choice somehow.

David: 22:01

Sure. Well, you know, we've partnered with the crucial conversation, you know, crucial learning, you know, great partner in the US that built itself off crucial conversations, you know, those, those. It's funny, you know, it's their model, which is actually very accurate and very good is that some of the most important things you're going to do in life require a critical conversation. But very few people have been trained about how to do that. Usually it's reactive on the back end and when things blow up instead of when things show up, and so great example of exactly that kind of thing. What kind of hard conversation do I need to have with my partner? What do I need to have with my bank? What do I need to have with my assistant, you know? And I love harmony. I hate conflict, you know, so I've been an approval suck all my life. What can I do to make sure you like me? And so learning how to have a thicker skin, something has taken decades for me to get better and better at. It's like, okay, they'll deal, you know, I'll deal, but not an easy choice. For somebody like me anyway, different personality styles. Some people love that kind of conflict and they relish and say, okay, let's go struggle. Let's go have an argument. Let's go. But me anyway, I think a lot.

Katie: 23:32

Of people struggle with the conflict. I think it's a small minority that get a kick out of it, and even the minority that get a kick out of having a conflict, it's still maybe on an intellectual basis or arguments, but when they need to really be vulnerable and really open up, I think that's pretty challenging for most people, I'd say.

David: 23:52

I think it's, well, usually they're in that way because of their insecurities. So that's once you learn about kind of how all those dynamics work, oftentimes the big blustering people are because they're scared.

Katie: 24:06

So most people struggle. That's the conclusion, yeah, I'd like to move on to the fourth horizon. So we went to fifth horizon, then we went on a tangent about doing right choices or hard choices and confronting reality, and now go back to the fourth horizon, which is vision. And it's funny because in my work, obviously, I've worked a lot with vision and goals, but there was a sentence that you said that really marked me, which is, we need to allow ourselves to want what we really want and not what we just think we can have. And even though I sort of know that that's the idea of a vision, I can now see how much this is an obstacle in the clients I worked with and myself. The fact that we don't fully allow ourselves to want what we really want because the subconscious plays this trick on us to protect us and say, hey, if I don't fully allow myself to want this and focus on something that I kind of could get, then I might not be disappointed. So how do you support people? Maybe when you help them, you know, one on one with personal productivity or now with teams to let down that guard and to really allow themselves to fully explore a high vision and not just narrow it down to something they can achieve, that's sort of limiting and not as exciting either.

David: 25:30

Well, I don't challenge people to kind of go to that level. I just ask them, hey, what would wild success for this team be? And just see what kind of answer they have. It may be a short term, wow, you know, a month from now they'll have this, or maybe next year, well, this will be true. And I just give people permission to have at whatever level of recursion or whatever level they want to see whatever that is. Cause that's gonna be helpful. You know, once they catch that, and especially if they start to catch that and then start to move on that, then they'll be open to even maybe a larger game. Wow. How could this really be? And of course, you can always challenge people to say, you know, I was challenged many, many years ago. I forgot who some mentor of mine said, look, David, if you don't have a goal that you can't achieve in your lifetime, you may not be playing a big enough game. So what goal do you that you can't achieve when your life's turned? Right? So that's a pretty, that's a pretty big one. My name is to create a planet that people perceive problems as projects. So that's kind of our mission, my mission, career wise, let's do them. But do you think I'm going to achieve that in my lifetime? I don't think so. I don't think so. I think will affect a lot of people who might then affect a lot of people who might then affect all the people. So it might be moving in that direction, so it creates directionality. So I think that's important, that whatever the vision you have is, the future never happens. Katie, if you haven't noticed, it's just now, just now. There is no it's just now. But holding a vision of your future then, then affects your now. It affects what you perceive, what you're motivated about, and your directionality. So the future is an illusion, but it's a handy one, so don't get too invested in whatever that vision is. And I think that was one of my points. It's like, God, just come up with it. Have fun, you know, just come up with it. And then, you know, see then what that may then start to develop. You know, I think I mentioned in the book, and I've done many exercises with teams, I say they write the financial Wall Street Journal article about how successful your project was, and they all think this is hokey as hell. And they start to do it. They go, oh, we could do that. Oh, that's cool. And all kinds of ideas, creative ideas, show up just because they gave themselves permission. They just go, what if this could be as cool as it could be, you know, at whatever frame they have? So I don't force it on the frame, I just kind of coach it in that regard, or that's what I'm done in it.

Katie: 28:30

Forcing people to have to have an even bigger vision, but just maybe challenging them a bit.

David: 28:40

Just forget it. How would youmorrow to be. It's like, okay, okay, how would you like to digest your food tonight? Or how would you, what kind of sleep would you like to have? I mean, any kind of outcome thinking is going to be valuable, as you know, you know, given the work that you do. But I don't try to put a rigorous frame about, you know, how big that needs to be or how far in the future that needs to be. Like, whatever they're willing to do.

Katie: 29:12

It probably expands some more people do that work anyway. At first they might have shorter term vision and maybe not as big. And then the more they get used to it and the more they allow themselves to believe and open up and get creative, the more possibilities come into play. But I thought that was fascinating, how we block from a subconscious level something on a, on a higher level and the importance of it and all these reasons why people, and again, for those listening, read the book because it's beautifully explained and it's a lot more in depth than this, but so many obstacles along the way, why people don't allow or want to have a vision. And like you said, if you don't see it done, then how can you see then how to do it? I thought that was great quote, like, see it done and then you'll know how you could do it. So I think, very interesting. I like the part of vision. I thought I know about vision, I've read about it, but again, you put in the conclusion it's not about knowing it. First of all, you remember again. And then I think that even when you read material on similar topics, there's always a bit of a different perspective or a different frame or different takeaway. And then it feels like a new topic to me every time I think there's a shift.

David: 30:23

Good. Good for you. Yeah.

Katie: 30:27

How about you? When you absorb information or read, do you feel that it comes to you from a different perspective? And do you feel you absorb information differently? And how is it?

David: 30:38

Yeah, no, I do. You know, I read probably a book a month. I'm not a big reader, but I just read a really good book that's just being launched right now. I think you might be interested in it. Hold on. I met him at the president's summit in Copenhagen a couple of weeks, two or three weeks ago. It's basically what's next is now how to live future ready. And Doctor Frederick Fert, he teaches at Stanford. He's been head of innovation at Google for years. And a lot of this is about don't try to wait for the future, make your future. And that's kind of a bottom line to the book. So, yeah, I thought, fascinating stuff. Now 78, I don't have a whole lot of wow, there's a big future out there I can't see. My future is a lot more one day right now, play the flute, better be able to draw and paint again, get some time. A trip to Italy we're going to do in a couple of weeks. So those are my kind of big visions. Not like way out there, but it's fascinating stuff. So he's got some interesting perspective and interesting data about how people have sort of refrain to think about how they're thinking about what they're thinking about and then come up with way cool stuff. And so how to kind of get out of the box, if you will, to think about stuff you might not be thinking about yet and then start to move on it, not just wait for it, and not wait for the world to be different before you make the world different. Good point.

Katie: 32:38

Amazing. I will definitely check it out. I love book recommendations, so thank you. Okay, we're approaching the last few minutes of today. I had like many more ideas, but we'd be here for two days and you've got other things to do then. Talk about leadership as a gardener and the importance of saying no and delegating. All of this is in the book. So for those of you listening who are curious to dive into it more highly, recommend the book. Maybe on a last note, you talk about the natural planning method. Would you say that the main difference with what most people do when they plan is the fact that you add the purpose, the principles and the vision? Do you feel this is what makes a natural planning method different or more effective? Or do you feel it's more the fact that you can intuitively plan and not be as locked into a plan? What would you say the natural planning method has that's different to the way people regularly plan?

David: 33:36

Yes.

Katie: 33:40

Cats, elaborate.

David: 33:41

No, no. That's why I came up. They're all critical. If you want to get out of the room, you have a purpose to get out of the room. You have a vision of being out of the room. You brainstorm, what do I need to do to get out of the room? You organize yourself to get out of the room and you have an action step to take on it. That's why it's the natural planning model. It's what we naturally do. It's how you got dressed, it's how you created this podcast. Katie. No, it's like what am I going to do? What would success look like? Okay, and what are all the things I need to consider about it so I could take any project and say, is a purpose player is the vision of success player? Have you brainstormed all potentially relevant information to make the vision happen? Have you organized that by priority sequencer or components? Have you got mixed actions on the moving parts so you could give me any project and find which of those pieces is missing? Any one of those is missing, it ain't going to happen, or it's not going to happen in the way you might want it to happen. But those things are pretty easy to do. And purpose and purpose and vision. Like, what are we trying to do here, and what would success look like? You could do that in 20 seconds if you actually saw, stopped and thought about it. Brainstorming might take a little more while. What are all the potentially relevant things that we might want to consider about this? Mind map it, whatever. Have a 30 minutes session with three or four key people or whatever. Organizing may take longer. Depends on how big the project is, because then you may need to say, okay, we need to create a critical path. We need to create a Gantt chart, we need to create an excel spreadsheet or whatever about how we're organizing the pieces. That could take as long as it takes. Well, that's usually the more major time intensive part of planning, is how do I organize the different pieces that I've come up with, but then deciding the next action on the moving parts that don't take long. Okay, what needs to be moved on here, who's doing it. So the brainstorming and the organizing parts are usually the things that take a little bit more time and effort. All the rest doesn't really just takes focus, you know, focus. Let's focus on why we're doing this. Let's focus on what success would look like. Let's focus on all the things that we might need to focus on in order to really make it work. Well, good. Let's focus on how to sort those things and organize them by priority, by sequence, or by components. Okay. And then let's focus on what needs to happen on the moving parts of this and who's doing it. So it's not a big mystery. I mean, it's not rocket science unless you're building rockets, right? You know, I consulted, I think I wrote this in the book I consulted to a company in aerospace that they were truly out on the edge of science and technology and aerospace and rockets and science and all that stuff. And so I just facilitated that meeting and I just walked them through this model and they were talking about stuff and I was writing it or whatever they said. They said, well, where does that go? Where does that go? At the end, they thought I was brilliant. They thought I knew a whole lot about, I had no idea what they were talking about, never did. I just knew the process to go through so that then they could get clear about it. So it's really about handling the mechanics of the process, about how you focus.

Katie: 37:34

Yes. And you do share that example in the book with the.

David: 37:39

It's so funny. Yeah.

Katie: 37:42

Yes. And it just shows that when you have that frame, you could see at least get them through the frame, even if you don't understand it, details of it. And it reminds me of what you said, which is that the team workflow is only as effective as the weakest link. So if you make sure all links are strong in the projects and then the five horizons and then the five steps of the GTD, then hopefully it should help.

David: 38:08

Then you'll be in healthy high performance or mined like water for the team of the organization, for sure.

Katie: 38:15

Exactly. Well, thank you so much, David. Thank you for being here today. Maybe what would you like to leave the listeners with? What? Your last piece of advice on this topic. There's so much, and it's so well covered in not only this book, but obviously the previous books that you've written. But what would you like to leave the podcast with?

David: 38:32

Stop using your head as your office. It sucks as an officer. Don't do that. Because then what people have is they have a whole lot of stuff, maybe on some sort of lists, and they have a whole lot of stuff in their head and they don't trust either one. So maybe they live in ambient anxiety.

Wakes up at 03: 38:53

00 in the morning. Oh my God. Should we? I. Maybe I should have. And that ambient anxiety is worth getting rid of. But it's not free. It's not hard, but it's not free.

Katie: 39:10

No. So it all begins with capture. And then you can have mind clear as water, first step and then going through the other five steps and the five horizons, etcetera. I highly recommend the book for people listening, teams getting things done with others. Fantastic to optimize team productivity, but also make you reflect on own personality, own productivity. Thank you so much for being here today, David. Thank you.

David: 39:35

Thanks, Katie. This was fun. Yay.

Katie: 39:41

Thank you so much for tuning in today to the Focusbee show. I would absolutely love to hear your feedback. So let me know in an Apple review or YouTube comment what was most valuable for you, and feel free to share this episode with a friend or family member wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused day ahead.