The Focus Bee Show

(35) How to be Assertive, Pro-active, Change our Beliefs and Plan Efficiently with Nicole Tschierske

April 27, 2021 Season 1 Episode 35
The Focus Bee Show
(35) How to be Assertive, Pro-active, Change our Beliefs and Plan Efficiently with Nicole Tschierske
Show Notes Transcript

Nicole, dedicated to helping women step up in their scientific career, shares with me a tech background and a passion for coaching. We discussed being assertive, confident, planning and so much more in the show!

In this episode, we cover:

  • The two main reasons why we struggle to be assertive
  • Being pro-active and why it matters
  • How to change our beliefs
  • Key planning strategies to reach our outcomes
  • How to trick ourselves into the flow


ABOUT Nicole

Nicole helps women in science and tech become recognised, go-to expert in their company. If you want to progress without burning out, Nicole can help you develop your professional and leadership skills so you gain the respect of your colleagues and senior management, enjoy the work you do and feel proud of your achievements. That way, you can confidently unlock new opportunities for yourself and make a bigger impact. Nicole holds a PhD in chemistry and a number of certifications in coaching and Positive Psychology. She uses all that knowledge and her analytical skills to help her clients create strategic plans that are easy to put into action.

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ABOUT Katie Stoddart:

Katie Stoddart is an award-winning, international, high-performance coach. Katie started her career as a hydrographic engineer working at sea and she now supports founders and executives to thrive in their business.

As an ambassador for women in tech, Katie frequently speaks at conferences: Women In Tech, SWE, STEM re-imagined etc. For her weekly podcast ‘The Focus Bee Show’, Katie interviews leading experts in high performance.

Katie works primarily with entrepreneurs & executives through 1-1 coaching & corporate workshops on Focus, Leadership & Performance. 

CONNECT with Katie Stoddart, aka 'the focus bee':

Listen to Katie’s PODCAST

Visit Katie’s BLOG

Connect with Katie on LINKEDIN

FREE TRAINING ON FOCUS

[00:01] Katie: Welcome to the Focus B show, where Katie Stoddart, high performance coach, interviews experts around the world in performance and mindfulness. Now here's your host. Katie.

[00:32] Katie: Welcome to a brand new episode of the Focus be show, and I'm delighted to be here today with Nicole Chiska. Nicole helps people, women more specifically in tech and in science, to become the go to expert or to be recognized as the go to expert in their field. Thank you so much for joining the show today, Nicole.

[00:53] Nicole: Well, thank you for being here or thank you for inviting. I'm so confused. Sorry, but because the last time we did an interview, it was me interviewing you. So it's the other way around right now.

[01:06] Katie: Yes, I was about to say it's great to see you again, because we met, nicole interviewed me for her summit and so I gave some productivity tips. We spoke a bit about procrastination, but today it's the other way around. So thanks again for being here. Before we launch into the sort of deeper topics that we have planned for today, would you like to share with us a bit about your journey and why you're focusing on this area at the moment?

[01:30] Nicole: Yeah, sure. So my background is in science, too. I studied food chemistry and did my PhD in chemistry in the cosmetics industry and worked also in consumer goods innovation for a little while. And I thought, that is going to be it, and that is where I'm going to stay forever and have my conventional career path, being a lab manager at some point or what have you. But then there was a time when, due to a restructuring in the company where I worked, all of my projects were put on hold. And long story short, for about one and a half years, I had almost nothing to do, which was horrible. So speaking of overwhelm and burnout, I was completely underwhelmed and bored out, so to speak. And with that, because it started to seep into other areas of my life, I sought the help of a coach and within four sessions I noticed my energy coming back. I noticed that I started to try new things again because I only ever kept doing the same thing, hoping something would change. But he kept me exploring new avenues. And so on one hand side, that led to a brand new job within the company where I worked, where I then was super happy. But at the same time I was like, how did he do that with me? I want to be able to do that too, for people. And so that is when I started coaching, training, and at the beginning, not even with a really big intention to make this a business, but then I went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole and I had just had so much fun doing it and seeing how I can help others bring about these types of transformation for themselves. I just really love doing that. And so that is why I started building my coaching practice as well. And why did I choose working with women in Stem specifically? Because I can relate so much to the struggles that they have. Because it's kind of the same thing that I was going through and sometimes they face those same roadblocks. So we're really kind of like on the journey together. And plus I really like how once they committed to themselves or whatever, they're just willing to do anything, willing to go outside their comfort zone, willing to do the work. And that is what brings about those great results. And I just love to see that.

[04:04] Katie: Amazing. And we have a lot in common in terms of having a sort of tech background and also now working in coaching. I feel that these two are really well aligned because the analytical skills of an engineering background or a tech background can really help with the coaching. So it's nice to see we're both using it slightly in different fields, but still within coaching. One of the things that I know that some women struggle with in general, but also in science and tech can be with being assertive and sort of standing up from theirselves and it can also be linked to confidence. Can you tell us a bit more about this, Nicole, and how you help people to solve this?

[04:41] Nicole: Yeah, so this is often, I mean, everybody knows the feeling properly when you're in a meeting and then you leave it later and it's like I should have said something, I should have asked a question. Or at some point you even start getting feedback from your colleagues or from your manager. Could you maybe speak up a little bit more? Or if you have something to say, why don't you share it? And then when I dig deeper with my clients to just really see what specifically is it that stops them from speaking up? I guess there's two things. One is sometimes having introvert tendencies or being more on the analytical side of our brains and also growing up with this. We are an expert and we must know the right answer. And oftentimes the right answer is not known until after substantial research. So there's really this point or this hesitant tendency about just giving just some statements on the fly or even thinking super quickly and having to digest a whole lot of information and then also in your head formulating the point and then being quick enough to raise your hand. So it's just so much going on. So that is one thing. And the other thing is that my clients, sometimes they don't even believe in themselves. There's all this, I mean, the criticism that might as well come from someone else, but they are like preempting all of that and giving it to themselves and then get caught up in this whole like yeah, but what if they think I'm stupid, but what if I say the wrong thing? But what if my idea isn't good enough yet and then they're so busy thinking about that that they forget to maybe I can just ask a question here.

[06:36] Katie: Amazing. How do you help people to deal with this? I keep saying people, but obviously in your case it's women. Women to deal with this lack of self belief because we all have it in different moments. How do you help them overcome it so they can actually stand up for themselves?

[06:50] Nicole: Yeah, so there's really different ways how we can go about it. So the much deeper coaching work is really about uncovering this kind of little immune system and those hidden beliefs and assumptions that keep us in that place. And we often have to do quite a bit of digging to come to those underlying beliefs. But obviously then there are also other more surface level, but still very effective things that we can do. And much has to do with preparation where you just simply have to know what you think about something so that is knowing and formulating for yourself regularly. Okay, my opinion on a certain topic is X. And I think that because so that it's not really so much about confidence or not wanting to feeling too shy or something like that, but it's more like building the conviction and believing your own thoughts and your own statements and you can still put a caveat on it and still go forward and still say it. So one of my super favorite role models, although she's more on the relationship side, is Esther Perel. And she always in her talks, she comes across super confident and everything. And I once watched a YouTube video with her where she also again, she gave a talk and she's know and then she wanted to engage the audience and nobody really dared to ask a question. And then she said to them, I can stand here and sounding very confident, but I'm very willing to change my mind tomorrow when I have new information coming up or new insights coming up. And that for me was such a revelation. And it's okay to speak with conviction and to stand by your opinion and change it when new information or data comes to light.

[08:49] Katie: I love this because it's basically having that conviction but still being open minded enough that if other information comes your way, you're willing to change opinions. So it's that fine line of being confident but not stubborn about it. And that's really nice. And in terms of self belief, I love what you said about the digging. That's a big part of coaching, I would say. Being a coach is like being a detective. There's a lot of digging and analyzing and going through. How do you manage to deal with some beliefs that are maybe already at a very sort of subconscious level? Because when we're aware of them, it's easier but when they're more subconscious, they're harder to deal with. So how do you help clients sort of overcome these beliefs or change these beliefs when they're sort of deeply ingrained?

[09:35] Nicole: Yeah, and this is so hard. And some of them we might not get rid of ever, but then just being aware of them is really the first step. So we know it's like hello, this one again. And then we can still choose, despite having this belief and feeling uncomfortable or inferior or inadequate or whatever, we can still then choose to act and behave in a different way. But I still find value in testing it. So often those beliefs, they are like kind of like representations of how we think the world works. And then we can use our scientific mind again and saying, okay, what about instead of taking this as the truth with a capital T, rather using this as a hypothesis that we need to test and so we're going to design those little experiments. Sometimes experiments look like, okay, can you find examples like other people in your life who don't believe this or for who the world works differently in that respect? Or we could even make little experiments for where the people start doing things. For example, if my belief is that when I share an idea in a meeting that is not completely thought through, then people will think I'm stupid and they will look at me with.

[11:01] Katie: What.

[11:02] Nicole: Did she just say? And so the experiment would be, okay, let's pick a safe meeting, maybe a team meeting, rather the presentation to the board where you can test this assumption. So I want you on purpose to share a half baked idea and then see what the reaction is. And then this is with those new experiences, you can then either confirm your hypothesis or you can disconfirm it, you disprove it. And then slowly, slowly, with all of this evidence to the contrary, it's not so rigid and all encompassing anymore, but it starts to get a bit looser.

[11:43] Katie: Wonderfully put. It's such a lovely explanation of beliefs and how we tend to think that our beliefs are the truth. And as soon as we realize they are hypothesis and we think, well, is that true? Then things start to change. I also feel that when we believe them to be the truth, we don't question them. And also we have this filter where everything that confirms our belief and that can be beliefs about ourselves or beliefs about the world, everything that confirms our belief, we sort of validate in our mind. And as soon as something goes against that, let's say, for example, what you mentioned about being in a meeting, maybe there was a time that person said something that was a half baked idea, like you put it, but they had approval. But because that didn't go with their belief of I can't do this, they just forgot about it. And this is where coaching can really help, because it can either help you pull out these memories that you've forgotten that go against your belief or create new experiences. So it just all brought me back to when I first discovered beliefs when I was doing my coaching training. And it was really nice to hear it put again this way, because lots of people listening probably don't know about.

[12:50] Nicole: This or how to manage it.

[12:52] Katie: And this is something that if you're listening, you can do it yourself. You can look at the beliefs you have and question them. Test in the past or test in the future. Really nice. In terms of the way people deal with managerial positions or being an expert or in a higher position, how do you think it's best to approach this? So how can women enter leadership positions with, again, this confidence, with being assertive and not have maybe impostor syndrome or too much self doubt or when people step out of their comfort zone, it can be quite a big leap. So how do you help people to do that?

[13:35] Nicole: So just do it, as Nike would put it. And it might sound a little bit oversimplified, but I must say I honestly have a bit of a pet peeve with this. You lack your confidence. Yeah. You're not confident and you have imposter syndrome. It's like the problem with that is I don't want to invalidate the feelings. I know very well how it is when you feel shy, when you don't feel confident, when you don't feel like you can believe in yourself or your abilities, or when you feel like people will find out that whole impostor feeling. I get it, but I don't think putting a label on it and now all of a sudden that is all I am. I come to think now that this is sometimes women in Stem or just anyone who goes by those labels sometimes uses this as an excuse to not do the things that make us feel uncomfortable. Because if we can't wear that label, then it is back on us. We can't hide behind anything anymore. And we don't have a reason anymore for why we're not taking action. But the reason we're not taking action is we don't want to feel uncomfortable. And uncomfortable is we don't want to feel inferior. We don't want to feel shame, we don't want to feel anxiety, maybe. We don't want to have this. Like when you really stretch yourself. And that is just something that I notice with my clients over and over again, is that when we start out, they feel like, yeah, I haven't been put on a talent track yet, or nobody comes to me and offers me another position or nobody wants to promote me or sponsor me on that track and so on. And then when I ask the question, okay, have you asked, have you applied? Have you showed your interest? Not really. And then as soon as we start working together and those opportunities come up to raise their hand, or even if it's just starting applying internally to other positions and informing your own manager, saying, hey, FYI, I just really want to grow and develop further. And that is why I applied to this position. All of a sudden, people turn around before you leave to the other department, let's just see what we can do for you. But you have to make the first step. It's with everything in life, you have to make the first step yourself. And sometimes this is just like holding space for feeling uncomfortable and doing it anyway.

[16:22] Katie: I love what you said about holding space for being uncomfortable. I think this is something that's so important because then instead of trying to ignore it, instead of finding distractions to do something else, we're actually pausing. I notice this is uncomfortable for me. I hold the space, like you just said, but I'll do it anyway, right? And like you said, doing the first step, being proactive, it's essential. Anyone that's gotten anywhere or has anything in life, they've done this. It's not just luck. It hasn't fallen from the sky. They weren't born under a lucky star. It wasn't their parents or their connections, maybe up to a point, but maybe once they wrote to their connections and did something about it. So the proactive part comes up over and over again, and it's such an essential thing. And I think I'd just quickly like to mention this here because I feel very strongly about the proactive part. I wouldn't be where I am now if I hadn't taken action and gone to this coaching course. And I remember the time I was reading an article on the importance of taking action. And at the same time, in another tab, I had a free two day coaching event and literally taking that action. Probably one of the first times in my life I was consciously proactive and doing something slightly out of my comfort zone that changed my life. So take action. If you're listening to this and you think it's a sign for you to take an action in a certain direction, do it. Apply to that job. Do something that's uncomfortable but that feels aligned and feels right for you. I just wanted to go there. I'd like to change, go on.

[17:59] Nicole: Because people say, yeah, but how did you know it was the right thing to do? You don't know and you don't have to know. And maybe you will only know like years or decades later, but you will never find out. This clarity comes only from doing things. You can't think your way to clarity. Even in science, in engineering, there's only so much you can do on paper. At some point, you have to go into the lab or into the field and test whatever you cooked up. And so it's the same thing. If taking huge steps is a bit too daunting. Just take little ones and run little experiments to see what's happening.

[18:37] Katie: Absolutely. You'll never know if it's the right step, but at least when you try, then you can test. In my case, with the example of the coaching, I could have done the two day workshop thought coaching is not really my thing. Whatever, you learn something, you move on. But then in this case I obviously did and then I joined the training, et cetera, et cetera. Anyway, I'd like to change briefly topics I know we're both into productivity and I know specifically, Nicole, you said that you really love planning. Now, up until now I don't think I've had a single episode where we discuss planning. So it's all yours. Tell us a bit why you're interested in planning and what is it specifically that helps you in your day to day life and maybe also your clients with planning?

[19:17] Nicole: Yeah, so for one thing, it helps me doing the things that matter whether I feel like doing it or not. Because I know I have a plan and I know this is I put some thought into that and so when the time comes for doing whatever makes me feel uncomfortable, then okay, but in the plan, so I stop arguing with myself as well. And planning is also I don't know, I like to have agency over where I'm going on, what's happening in my life, and to always having a bit of obviously for a different level of granularity, but a six to twelve month line of sight, knowing where do I want to be six months from now? And then breaking it down into quarterly, monthly actions, even weekly. So I know what's important, what needs to get done by when, and then even then also distributing that over a week or over the day. And that also gives me so first of all, it gives me the opportunity to get things done early and have it squared away. And then my brain is flooded with dopamine because everything is ticked off. Or if I have a low energy week, I also know, okay, if I only do this one thing this week, I'm still on track because I had this plan and I'm not leaving everything to the last minute. And I have put in enough buffer weeks, so to speak, in case something goes wrong and so on and so on. So I don't know, it just makes my life much more easier. And I notice very quickly what happens when I let loose of my calendar and I let other people take over and then it's just a mess. And I said, what am I doing here? Something needs to change.

[21:10] Katie: Wonderful. This is also a way of being proactive versus reactive because obviously when you let people fill in your calendar, that's a form of reactivity. You're waiting for people to tell you how to spend your time, but you're anticipating ahead of time. And therefore you're being proactive. This is such a nice approach. I also feel this way, but I have an impression that you're end to start planner. So do you know what that means? You focus first on the end and you work backwards, whereas I'm a start end. So I start, I think where's this going? And then I sort of create a plan and I adjust it. I've obviously incorporated a lot of end to start because we learned this in coaching. But it's interesting that there are two different types of planners start to end and the end to start in terms of how you actually break it down into sort of quarterly and then weekly. How do you establish which ones are priority and how do you establish which tasks to do? Because you can have a six month goal, but it can be difficult to find out what steps you need to do to make that six months goal happen.

[22:15] Nicole: Okay, so for example, if my six months goal and I'm just taking this I mean, your audience is mainly entrepreneurs, so maybe they can relate to what I'm saying here. So if I look at my own coaching practice, then my six months goal is maybe make X amount of profit and have X amount of people in my universe, whatever that might look like. And then I think about, okay, if this is my top level goal for the next six months, then I look at what are the free, not more, what are the free pathways or mid level goals that I have to achieve in order to get to this six months goal. So what are the things that really directly pay into this? And those mid level goals are then things like, okay, how do I build my audience? And then for those people who are already in my audience, how do I continue to provide value to them and keep them engaged and keep in touch? And then for those people who then choose to work with me, what are the things I want to do for them in order to and all of this, in the end, provides that kind of value that people want. To see in their own lives and that they are willing to pay me for, which is then feeding into my profit goal, which is I mean, obviously we can also talk about things like impact goals. For example, how much money do I want to donate, how much of my time do I want to donate? But all of this needs to be kind of like made available or made possible. And that is where I then have those free mid level goals. And then for each of these mid level goals, I define daily or weekly actions. So things that I have to do. So for example, to build my audience, it would be things go on a podcast or post content on LinkedIn or connect with people on LinkedIn and so these would be my clear defined tasks that I will do. And then I know, okay, if I do those consistently all of the time, then it builds my audience, which is part of achieving this six months goal. And then in terms of what do I do with the people who are already in my audience, then it's mainly about offering them a free workshop or offering them a short 30 minutes free session or writing an email every week that provides them some insight. And then for my clients, it's things like, okay, obviously having coaching sessions, reviewing their reflection work that they do and giving additional input or maybe creating extra resources for them. And so that goes there. And so this is how it's going together. And then every three months I draw another map like this and I evaluate, okay, what of the things I have been doing, which I like. And I know you are big on this one too. What gives me energy and what do I like doing and what worked. If I only like doing it but it doesn't work and doesn't pay into the goal, then okay, maybe it's not the thing to do anymore, but also if it pays into the goal, but I dread it every time it also needs to go. And so that is where I'm evaluating. And then after three months I'm amending the map slightly and continue doing more of what works.

[25:49] Katie: Amazing. It all sounds so structured. I wonder if when I talk about productivity, I start structured as that. It's very nicely put. And I love this review every three months. So every quarterly it's great to review, first of all, your goals. Also you might have changed your mind, you might want to do different goals or different rhythm. And I love what you said about are you enjoying it and is it contributing to the goal? And I feel that one of the struggles as an entrepreneur is to know which tasks to do, know which ones are important and prioritize. I know that when I began, this was a huge struggle for me, which is why productivity means a lot. Because having this feeling of you're putting your energy and time in lots of different directions, but you don't know which ones pay off, which ones are worth it. If you're doing it right, it's a mess. So I'm happy to see that you've also figured out this whole way of working, a way of going around things and in terms of when you are actually reviewing every quarterly. So you look at what's gone well and what you can improve and then the tasks that you said that you sometimes find draining and don't necessarily or maybe do contribute to your goal. Do you sometimes then delegate them or do you eliminate them completely or do you revise them?

[27:11] Nicole: So there are different ways. If there's no way of getting around it, I just have to trick myself into a flow state, either by finding more meaning in that task or by doing it in a way that if it's a very non challenging and boring task, then I need to find a way to make it more challenging for myself. So I get back into flow. If it's just completely overwhelming me, then I need to break it down a little bit more. And sometimes I just put, like, a super juicy reward at the end of it. Like, if I get this done in an hour now, then I can whatever, binge Netflix for 2 hours or whatever is important to me in that moment. So I just have to talk myself into it, kind of. And we can do.

[28:06] Katie: Can we can.

[28:06] Nicole: Trick our brains into liking something. But yes, I'm very getting very strict with just cutting things out, like, less and really getting closer to the true 20% that I enjoy doing and that make a meaningful contribution to what I'm trying to achieve. But yeah, obviously sometimes things need to get done and then I will find a way. Okay, what is a good way to outsource it?

[28:37] Katie: Yes. Tricking yourself into doing things you don't want to do. Tricking yourself into flow state. I love this. I could totally see myself doing this too. And I really like the different information you gave as to how we can trick ourselves, make it more challenging, give ourselves a reward. There's so many ways to actually just make it happen and adding the meaning. That was also a huge part that you mentioned. This was lovely. The time has just flown by. I can't believe the episode's already over. Thank you so much, Nicole, for your time. Thank you for joining the show today. And, yeah, thank you so much for being here.

[29:12] Nicole: Thanks for having me.

[29:15] Katie: Thank you for listening to the Focus B show. We would love to hear your feedback. Let us know in a review how this episode inspired you. Keep buzzing.