(265) Joel Schwartzberg: Get to the Point! – Elevate Your Message

(265) Joel Schwartzberg: Get to the Point! – Elevate Your Message 

Joel Schwartzberg, former national champion public speaker, a communication coach, and author of several books (including the popular release book ‘Get to the Point!’), shares his magic on how to effectively communicate your ideas to create a clearer and more meaningful message.  

• Get to the point – sharpen your message 
• How AI is impacting communication 
• Badjectives: replace gratuitous words 
• Language of leadership: inspire your team 
• The power of pausing  
• How to speak with precision  

And so much more!  

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🎬 Sales Rebellion: Intentional, Audacious, and Legendary with Dale Dupree: https://youtu.be/-p3xDTYG0cU  

🎬 Turning High Achievers into High Performers: https://youtu.be/B1a2RWI-h1g 

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ABOUT JOEL SCHWARTZBERG 

Joel Schwartzberg is a communications coach and writer whose clients represent industries and interests including healthcare, financial services, biopharmaceutical science, cybersecurity, personal insurance, and civil rights. 

He formerly served as Senior Director of Strategic and Executive Communications for a major national nonprofit and held senior communication and editorial positions with Nickelodeon, PBS, and Time Inc.  

An expert in the practice of successful presentations and point-making, Joel's articles appear in Harvard Business Review, Fast Company, Toastmaster Magazine, CNBC, Newsweek, and Inc.com, and he's been the featured guest on many business and communication podcasts. 

CONNECT WITH JOEL SCHWARTZBERG 

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📘 WEBSITE: https://www.joelschwartzberg.net/ 

 
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Transcript

[00:00] Katie Stoddart: Welcome back to the Focus B show. This is Katie Sudddhart here, aka the Focus B. And on this show I interview high performers and leaders around the world to discover their secrets on peak performance, productivity, mindfulness and leadership. So if you want to take your performance and your leadership to the next level, then you're in the right place. Listen up and connect with the magic.

[00:37] Katie Stoddart: Fantastic to be here with Joel Schwarzberg. Joel is a presentation and communication coach. He's also a writer. He's written several books and been published in multiple magazines, and he is an expert on getting your point across, successful presentations and effective communication. Welcome, Joel. Fantastic to have you on the show today.

[01:00] Joel Schwartzberg: Thank you, Katie. I'm very honored and happy to be here.

[01:04] Katie Stoddart: I think it's so interesting how you dive into both communication but more specific leadership communication. And your first book was around getting your point across. What got you interested in communicating your point, clearly, was this something that you personally struggled with?

[01:22] Joel Schwartzberg: When I started teaching public speaking, this goes way back to 2006, and a lot of it was based on my experiences in competitive public speaking in middle school, high school and college. And I did that for a few years. But about two years into it, I would ask my students and clients, oh, just tell me, what was the point you were trying to make? And Katie, what was interesting was they either wouldn't know or they would reflect something back to me that wasn't a point. That was actually a topic, a theme, a category, a catchphrase, a notion, an observation. These things are points. And having a true point, an argument, a proposal is so critical that we really need to start there, because it doesn't matter how good a speaker you are or how much experience you have, if you don't have a point, that's a recipe for rambling, for epic fail, and for no impact whatsoever.

[02:16] Katie Stoddart: How can we not ramble? What would be the opposite of rambling? Have clear, concise communication.

[02:23] Joel Schwartzberg: It all goes back to that word point. Do you know that you have a point? And there are two tests I use to help people understand whether they have a point or not. The first is called the I believe that test. You put the words I believe that in front of what you think your point is, and you ask yourself one question, do I now have a complete sentence? So, for example, I believe that podcasting, not a complete sentence. I believe that the power of podcasting, I believe that the evolution of podcasting, I believe that the future of podcasting. See how none of these are complete sentence sentences. So what we need to do is create something to be a complete sentence. Like, I believe that podcasting is the best way to reach our millennial audience. They see how that's a complete sentence, and that's a point. And it gets to the second test, which I called an xy test, and that's even simpler. It goes like this. If we do x, y will result. If we elevate our podcasting work, we will reach more millennials. More millennials will buy our product, more millennials will be aware of our mission. But you need both x the means to get to an impact and y the specific impact itself. Once you have those elements, then you have the beginnings of a point. Then you could talk about sharpening it and championing it, but you really can't get far, and you really will ramble if you only have something broad, like a theme, topic.

[03:54] Katie Stoddart: Why is it that people struggle to get to the point?

[04:00] Joel Schwartzberg: I think they have struggles when they think in terms of words and not points. This is why I counsel people not to write their speeches out word for word. Rarely does anyone want to do that, unless you're giving a keynote at a major conference. We were a politician or something like that. But generally, what does your audience remember? Will they remember your words? Will they remember your point? Will they remember what you said or what you meant? It's always the point. And to answer your question, I think people think, oh, I need to say this word, I need to say that word. I need to include this thing, and I need to include that thing, or I'm thinking, this is about me. Am I embarrassing myself? Are people understanding me? Am I boring? And that defensiveness or that feeling of slight shame or worry and anxiety that causes even more words to come out. And the peril, and let's identify it, Katie, the peril, the more words you use to make your point, the less likely your audience is going to receive that point. They need it simple to digest it. So if we get nervous and we overload it with words, even extra topics, oh, there's this 10% off. You could have it in three colors. I'll be there tomorrow. My old team, this is the name of my team. What does that do? That complicates the communication for your audience. Your audience. Can I often say it like this? If you say many things, your audience will remember none of them. If you say some things, they will remember some of them. If you say one thing, they will remember all of them.

[05:37] Katie Stoddart: It's interesting. It feels to me like this external verbalization is a reflection of the internal dialogue. Because I was talking yesterday with someone about overthinking and the different types of overthinking and how to overcome that and what we can do to manage too many thoughts. And I'm thinking about it now with this rambling and talking, and I feel, is that just a reflection of how noisy and messy it is inside our head?

[06:07] Joel Schwartzberg: Absolutely. In fact, when I coach people on overcoming their nervousness, the tip I lead with first is identifying that voice in your head. And I sometimes call him Roy. But apologies to anyone in your audience named Roy or know anyone named Roy. Roy's job is to make you more insecure. So when you're speaking and you hear, oh, this is boring, you didn't prepare enough for, you know, you're nervous and it shows. And if Roy is really powerful, he comes out of our mouth too. We've all had presentations where people start, you know, I didn't really practice this too much, so don't expect a lot or I'm really nervous about this. So I'd like it to be sort of a dialogue versus a know. That's Roy winning. We don't want Roy to win. You need to divorce yourself from that voice in your head giving you all of the wrong information. Keep in mind, Roy is not just giving you sketchy information. Roy is lying to you because he wants you to be more nervous. The truth is, the only way to know if you're presenting effectively is to practice it in front of someone like you, Katie. And then when I'm done, I would say to you, Katie, what do you think my point was? Or here's what the main takeaway I want people to get. Did you receive this? Did you take that as your takeaway? And if you're correct, then I did it. Well, if you're not correct, then I need to reimagine it. Because at the end of the day, the goal is not to be seen as a great public speaker or presenter, because then all I'd want to do is get more public speaking gigs. The goal is to deliver a point, move it from point A to point B. This is why we never say we perform a speech. We say we deliver a speech because we're delivering something of value to the audience.

[08:00] Katie Stoddart: This is fascinating. I haven't often thought about how well, I have thought how our words reflect our thoughts and beliefs, but I haven't thought about this concise communication, getting to the point and how if we're not clear in our own minds what the point is. If we just have themes or words or ideas, but not really clarified, then it's obviously a lot harder. And also very interesting what you were saying about not fully at all, sometimes listening to inner voice and that it lies. I had that realization, well, many times. But last week I was walking home and I thought, oh, I'm physically exhausted. I could possibly walk home. And then I walked away home. I have an hour walk to go to my coworker, an hour walk home. And then I arrived home and I was absolutely fine. And I thought I wasn't at all physically exhausted. I probably could have walked another 1020 kilometers. It's just on that moment, add a small dip. It had been a long day. I felt a bit hungry. And so I literally thought, I am totally exhausted. I can't possibly walk.

[09:06] Joel Schwartzberg: Thoughts are so powerful and sometimes it seems logical. Like when I create a presentation, I think, what am I going to say? And that's the wrong question, especially for leaders. I have had a lot of CEO clients and a lot of executive leaders, and they approach it, or even their entire team approach it. What do I want to say this month at our town hall? What do I want to say at this conference? It's the wrong question because it's thinking of you with a goal of getting words out of your mouth. It's not thinking of your audience and the goal of them receiving and acting on your point. So if we understand that the goal is for the audience to receive our point, because if that doesn't happen, what's the point of speaking? Then we realize that the right question is, what does my audience want and need to hear? Now, Katie, those are two different things. What they want to hear is something they're aware of, but they need more elaboration on. What they need to hear is something they don't have no idea, but they need to hear this. Now, once you identify those things, you reverse engineer your presentation so that it's designed to deliver on that point and that impact. And one final thing I'll add here is that I use the word impact, and we think of it very generally. Like if somebody hears something, that's impact. So let's define that. If now, this presentation we want to have will have impact. And that impact means that the person on the other side of the table or the screen or the stage, they will think anew, or they will take an action that you want them to take. But for those things to happen, you need to know the new point you want them to receive, and you need to know the action you're trying to have them take.

[10:53] Katie Stoddart: It shifts the perspective from being the person talking and performing and being the center of attention, interest to actually, what is it? What's the message? What am I trying to communicate? Get across? What do they need to hear? What do they want to hear? Like you said. And that's always my number one tip for people who are never speaking. It's just not about you, right?

[11:16] Joel Schwartzberg: It's not about. Not about how white your teeth are or what tie you wore that day. That's about them liking you. If I came away from this podcast, you know, Katie was terrific. She's so smart. She's funny, she's well versed. She has so much experience. And someone said to me, what did you get out of that podcast? What did Katie teach you that day? Gosh, I don't remember. But she was terrific. I really recommend her podcast. I would suggest you haven't successfully made that connection because you want to deliver value and information that, again, helps people is a benefit to them.

[11:49] Katie Stoddart: You mentioned right now leadership. And I know that you also wrote the book the Language of leadership. What do you feel is one of the major pitfalls of leaders?

[11:59] Joel Schwartzberg: Well, it starts with that question. I just want to put some more mustard on that, if I can, asking what should I say versus what do I want my audience to hear? But what we also want from our leaders is to be responsive. So something I talk about in the language of leadership, and we often don't put this in the category of language, but is listening. And not only listening, but active listening and reflecting. By that, I mean, I'm listening to you, Katie, but I'm signaling to you that I am receiving what you're saying. And I appreciate it by nodding. Think about this. When we applaud someone, we say, congratulations, you reached the end of your presentation and you didn't fall over. Very good. Or if I laugh, something you said was entertaining to me, or first smile. But this, the nodding is very powerful, especially for leaders, because it shows. I received your point. I understand it, and there's a good chance I'm going to apply it and remember it. And then the other end, the high end of the spectrum of reflecting, is saying, that was a great point. I really understood how you're proposing x y. You're proposing it, and let's continue this meeting next week with some more people from around the organization so we could see how we can implement it. I mean, just hear those words and how they might make you feel as someone who's suggesting an idea or making a presentation. Terrific. A lot better than if that leader merely said, thank you. Thanks a lot. So those kind of things, listening, making sure you're asking the right questions before you begin a presentation and delivering it confidently. And that's for everybody. That means with a strong volume, by embracing pauses, by previewing your point. Today I'm going to talk about this, this and this, and why they're so instrumental to our reaching our fourth quarter goals. Think of it this way. What are the decisions I can make that will make it easiest for my audience to hear, digest, process and apply what I'm saying.

[14:10] Katie Stoddart: About that clarity of communication and that clarity of decision making that then makes it easier for them. And it's true that great leadership, I feel, stems from clear communication, really good listening, emotional intelligence, but also that clarity in the decision and the direction. Because you need a leader who's both listening to what the team needs or the company needs, but equally is providing a direction. Because I've had experience in the past of even leading myself a group or being in a group that was being led where it was like, so what do you guys want to do? What do you want to do today and how is this going to go? And I'm thinking, I know where you try to go here, but this person was managing a team of 30 people. It was just sort of a weekend trip. So it was just a person who'd organized the trip. And then of course you've got 30 people who want to do entirely different things. Let's continue here. Let's do this. You have to provide plan A and then say, for those who aren't interested, feel free to do your own thing. But this is what we're all going to do so that we've got something to follow.

[15:19] Joel Schwartzberg: Right.

[15:19] Katie Stoddart: It's that tricky balance of compassion and courage.

[15:23] Joel Schwartzberg: Right. It's also an agenda is only the table of contents for the meeting. It's not about the points you're trying to make. So I always encourage leaders to bring points. Yes, let's have an agenda. Maybe you didn't even make the agenda. Let's make sure we check all the boxes. Well, what points are you trying to make? Should we be doing X instead of y? What should we have in our minds as we are following you and we are doing our jobs? And Katie, your really good point reminded me of something that I often preach to leaders, which is there's a huge difference between information and inspiration, and often information does not inspire. We've all seen presentations that say, here's a thing, here's a history of the thing, here's the three ways we're going to deploy the thing. Here are how many people are doing the thing and here's how much we're investing in the thing. We know what I never heard how the thing is going to help us reach our goals. And that is the point of inspiration. So leaders shouldn't approach the presentation by thinking, oh, I'm going to educate, I'm going to inform. That's not far enough. Those things will not engage or inspire. That's just delivering a bunch of information. But your audience, your team doesn't know what they're supposed to do with it or how it applies to them. So always be thinking. To borrow from Simon Sinek, what is the why? What is the purpose of this information? How does it affect you and what specifically am I encouraging you to do with it?

[16:53] Katie Stoddart: I'm thinking my whole workshop for tomorrow, I am listening at the same time, but I'm thinking, okay, am I really focusing on them? I'm listening to all your words and applying it to my workshop for tomorrow. And thinking, am I really meeting them where they are? Is that what they need to hear? Do they have a clear takeaway?

[17:14] Joel Schwartzberg: Well, here's the good news, Katie, is that if you're looking at a presentation, you're thinking, I'm not sure if they're going to get my point. It's a really easy fix and you could do it with what I call magic words. When a presenter says, here's the point, or here's the thing. Or if you take nothing away from this presentation but this one thing, it would be this. You see how that magnetizes people's attention? Everything will stop as soon as you say, here's the key point, everything stops. You have everyone's attention. So you don't want to say that all the time, but use that opportunity to drill into your point. Here's the thing. I know we talked about a lot today, but the one thing I want you to remember is this. If we do X, Y will result. I believe that doing X will lead to Y. They will take it away. If you merely even use those magic words. If you're concerned about it, this is great.

[18:08] Katie Stoddart: I'm going to apply this directly. I mean, I often say like, this is the key point, et cetera, and I'll be more aware of this and I'll be more when to say it.

[18:18] Joel Schwartzberg: Right. With great power comes great responsibility. I think that's from Spiderman. But use those moments very carefully and very opportunistically, not just to make a minor point, but to make the one takeaway. And if you can't look at your presentation and say, here are the two things I really want people to take away, you need to make sure you do that before you begin, because if you don't know what you want them to take away, how are you going to emphasize it?

[18:45] Katie Stoddart: I know what I want them to take away.

[18:47] Joel Schwartzberg: Good.

[18:47] Katie Stoddart: Self discipline all begins with awareness, and the self discipline leads to a life of alignment and purpose and not to.

[18:55] Joel Schwartzberg: Autopilot clear points perfectly and you know, say it as often as you want. Nobody would ever come away from one of your speeches, Katie, and say, you know, Katie was fantastic. She just made her point too many times. Nobody would say that because that's your gift to them. So start with know it's not a movie where we're going to spoil the ending. Start with it. Keep reinforcing it. This slide proves my point this way. This slide proves my point this way and end with it. What I hope you realize is that if we have a mindset of X, then we're going to achieve y. Stop, pause, let it sink in and you're done.

[19:31] Katie Stoddart: Amazing direct coaching on my podcast. This is happening more and more. Last time I had Robin Waite on the podcast and he's a business coach and he started doing this stimulation with me and my business and asking me pricing and my money mindset all during.

[19:45] Joel Schwartzberg: The putting you on the like, this.

[19:48] Katie Stoddart: Is great, really on the spot every time. The topic of communication, that's so interesting, and there's so many different facets to it nowadays with AI being a big, big topic, how do you feel this is going to influence us specifically when we speak about online communications, writing articles, all these forms of communications with now this sort of hybrid version with AI. What are your thoughts on this?

[20:15] Joel Schwartzberg: The good news is that if we buy into the idea that it's all about points, not words, then we understand that AI is a tool not to script us, but to support us. Because AI is, even if it gives us points, we're going to customize them specifically to what we're doing. I use a lot of generative AI, whether it's through Microsoft or through Grammarly or whatever the platform is. You can canva like all these platforms have AI built to them. And my approach is not to reject it by any means or not to think it's going to take over what I do, but is there to support me, not unlike 20 years ago when I had a big fat thesaurus next to my computer and it would replace one of my words with a better word. I mean, that's dinosaur AI, but it's still the idea of supporting you to make two words, maybe into one. Oh, I didn't realize that these two words were synonyms. And I know because it's better to be concise and simple, I can use that word. So if people are using generative AI, then use it to suggest things. But again, not to script you, not to write that blog, but to help you write it more effectively. And for that reason, I don't think generative AI is as much of a tool for people who can write as it is for people who can't. In our business, a lot of people are writing, and not all of them are good writers. But writing is so important across the board. So by all means, if you're not a good writer, but you do have to write everything from emails to white papers to customer letters, why not use generative AI to help you make it sharper, shorter, more concise, and more impactful? So again, I'm a fan. As long as it's supporting and not scripting.

[22:12] Katie Stoddart: It's true that if I think of Grammarly, for instance, that I use several times, I feel it helped me also to learn things about writing because it would correct, but then it would tell you why, and it made you think about the way you were using certain senses or the passive voice, et cetera, et cetera. And it actually helps you to improve your writing, I think. If it's clear like this, I suppose one of my concerns around AI is that the actual quality of output will diminish. And I don't just mean of quality of writing, I mean of quality of ideas. If people start to use AI as a way to find ideas and it becomes all a bit same same, and there's no true new thoughts and concepts and innovation, I guess that's probably one. I mean, I have many, but there are some great tools and there's a lot of really good things. It all depends what lens you look at it through, but one of them is, will all our thoughts decrease?

[23:12] Joel Schwartzberg: Right? If you google public speaking tips, you'll get the same things over and over. People are writing the same thing over and over. And you could probably replace public speaking tips with whatever your specialty is. So that's been with us for a long time, and I am concerned about AI coming up with points and coming up with the ideas versus supporting your ideas. So at the very least, please take what AI gives you and apply your experience. Your audience, they went to school, they have jobs. They learned so much. They learned from experience. They learned from reading, they learned from their colleagues and their peers. Why would they throw all that out the window for something that a six year old could also look up? They wouldn't and they shouldn't. So apply your expertise to what you get. The AI is your, let's call it assisted intelligence and your research expert. Or what do they call it in college, the person that works with professors to do all the work, or Supreme Court justice, someone who does all the research for them. Consider it your little authority on a subject, and then use it to power your points. Don't bury yourself and just simply use the points from AI.

[24:32] Katie Stoddart: So your point is that AI is to be used as support, as an assistant, but not to generate the ideas to begin with.

[24:41] Joel Schwartzberg: Right. Or replace your ideas or replace, yes.

[24:46] Katie Stoddart: And then it all becomes so mundane. But yes, hopefully people will see that. And I also don't find it very inspiring when it gives me any thoughts of ideas. Of course, I tried once or twice just for fun, to see what sort of articles would come through, and it was, yes, but it's very different. For instance, writing your article and then putting it in a tool like Grammarly and it correcting the way you write it and then using that, that's different to getting AI to just write a whole article for you. Of course we can, but the actual content isn't that good.

[25:17] Joel Schwartzberg: Yeah, I used to be very arrogant in my youth. I used to think, well, I'm not going to use a thesaurus and I'm not going to use a dictionary because I got it all right here, because I'm a writer. Her. But I learned that, like you said, when I use Grammarly, I'm learning a lot. Also, one of the things I've learned in specific was not to use pronouns. So if I write in a presentation, this is why, or it will show you. It always replaces it with this idea, this new campaign will, and it taught me to audit my writing for those unclear pronouns and replace them with much more clear concepts. And I'm a big fan of Grammarly for that learning in and of itself. It's made my work and my communication much stronger and more specific.

[26:06] Katie Stoddart: It's true. This is why I remember this. It's been used that quite a bit. And this is why the den is always underlined. Yes, that's a good point. What's some of the things that we haven't brought up right now that you feel are complementary to what we've been discussing? So we've gone around making a clear point leadership and how to communicate clearly how AI is impacting. What's one thing that we need to bring to the table now, I would.

[26:37] Joel Schwartzberg: Direct people to avoid what I call badjectives. Badjectives are adjectives that are so broad and so accessible that they could apply to anything. So when we say, this campaign is great, this podcast is awesome, this conference session is very interesting. Well, listen, I had an awesome, very interesting and great tuna fish sandwich for lunch yesterday, and surely I can't use the same words that I'm applying to that tuna fish sandwich that I would to an amazing campaign that's going to save our business or our country. So what do I do? I look for the adjective great, very good, awesome, and I replace it. I ask why? Why is this campaign very good? Well, this campaign is very good because it's going to help us save money. It's going to help us be more efficient and effective. Aha. So now we have, this campaign is great because it's going to make us more efficient and effective. Well, now we don't even need the adjective anymore. Remember, we want to simplify things. This campaign will make us more efficient and effective. We've identified the adjective and we've removed it because it serves no purpose. And we've gone right from our proposal to not just great, but a specific outcome that will be more meaningful to our audience and makes us as presenters more clear.

[28:01] Katie Stoddart: I'm letting this think in. I use a lot. Great, awesome, fantastic.

[28:08] Joel Schwartzberg: Fascinating. Yeah.

[28:09] Katie Stoddart: And I think that's fine sometimes.

[28:12] Joel Schwartzberg: Right? No one will ever say, well, Katie shouldn't have said very good there. But it's all about sometimes there's an unconscious impact we can have on people. And the less adjectives you use, I would suggest the more powerful your presentation will be.

[28:30] Katie Stoddart: I can see that. And I can see the difference between if someone says, oh, how are you doing? And you say, oh, great or fantastic, that's one thing. But if someone said, just like you, I do a guest introduction between different podcasts, for instance, and I would typically maybe say, this podcast, the interviewer or this guest was great, and then I will add things. But I could just say, spoke about XYZ, was very clear about this, really communicated their ponchili around this, their background is in this. And that says in and of itself that the guest is great.

[29:06] Joel Schwartzberg: Yeah. And I love introduced, like if someone's introducing someone at a conference I look for, or if I'm counseling that person, that's where a lot of people use those adjectives. Oh, we have a great speaker coming up, she really knows her stuff. She's interesting. She's fascinating. She's adjective, adjective, adjective, adjective. And if you want to use that sort of framework to understand if using adjectives, can it apply to a toaster, a sandwich, a salad? If it can, then the red flag goes up. But rather, I want to talk about Katie Stoddard, who is in the business of revealing amazing insight about the ways we work and the ways we can elevate our business approaches, from interns to leaders across the country, whatever that's going to be. The more specific is, the more powerful it is. And when you were saying that, I often think about when your colleagues help you with your speeches. You usually go to someone and say, give the speech. And you say, how did I do? And they go, you did great. And they go, thank you. That was very helpful. The right question, if you're doing this, if you're practicing in front of someone else, is not to say, how did I do? Because they'll say, you did great. But to say, like I said before, what was the point you think I was trying to make, or this was my takeaway? Did you, in fact, take that away? And that will give you everything you need to know to improve that speech or to know that presentation is going to be effective.

[30:34] Katie Stoddart: It's true. It's a much better question. The questions lead to the answers. The clearer the question, the clearer the answer. And if you just exactly how did it go or how did I do? Then it's a very vague, empty ish question that's just really looking for praise, because that's most likely they will give you praise and a bit of comfort. But if we really want some clear insight into how we could improve it, or if the message was clear, then if we ask specific questions, we get more specific.

[31:05] Joel Schwartzberg: Right? Like during a job interview, this is why. Tell me about yourself. It seems like a softball, but it's actually difficult because it opens the world of possibilities. And it's why, if you're interviewing for a job, why you need to understand the three points or the one big point you want to make. When someone says to you, tell me about yourself and not just leave it open. And next thing you're talking about your puppetry collection and your interest in horror movies and what have you, it's a mess. But that sort of fits into what you're saying. The more specific the question, the more valuable the answer.

[31:39] Katie Stoddart: Yes. I never liked that question. I don't get it in job interviews because I pretty much haven't had one from, yeah, I got into my first jobs pretty instantly, and then I started my own business quite young. So I haven't been in many job interviews, but sometimes people do say that even at the beginning of a podcast interview, and then you think, okay, wait a minute. And you have to be super clear. What are the points I want to get across? I have to discuss my hobbies or to discuss my daily routine. I'm here to focus, maybe a bit of my background very briefly what I'm focusing on right now, how I support people. And you just dial it all in. But on the moment, it's such an open question that if you don't have that train of thought, you could just go anywhere.

[32:22] Joel Schwartzberg: Yeah. And it's definitely in media training. If you've ever been media trained or been part of media training, often the reporter will be, all right, let's say lazy. And they'll just say, all right, tell us about this. All right, so why are we here? You hear it all the time. And so that person, that subject matter expert, needs to be prepared to say, well, we're here for this reason because we believe X will lead to Y. And if more people sign on to that, we can make a big difference around the country. That's media training. But that applies to almost everything. A job interview. You're right. In podcasts, often when I do podcasts, often the first question is, tell me a little bit about yourself or tell me what you're good at or share your expertise. But that onus, let's try to transfer that onus back to the person asking the question as much as possible, because it really doesn't belong to the recipient. That onus of asking a good question belongs to the questioner, but it's going to happen regardless.

[33:16] Katie Stoddart: I've only just realized that then we can actually bounce it back and say, when you say this, would you like me to focus on this area? This area, you could just bounce it back. You said, okay, myself could take more than the podcast length. So which aspects do you want to know more about? And then you let them narrow it down.

[33:37] Joel Schwartzberg: Right. I think that's a great idea.

[33:41] Katie Stoddart: So what's the last tip that people could take away today? Talking about effective communication. Getting to the point, I've learned a ton already within the last few minutes. What would be your last piece of advice for someone listening to this episode?

[33:54] Joel Schwartzberg: A piece of advice I think is worth covering, and I want to make sure people understand before we leave is the power of pausing. Pausing helps you as a presenter, but it also helps your audience. It helps you because it allows you to speak with precision. Often, our mouth runs ahead of our minds. Our mouth goes, blah, blah, blah, and 10% and 5% and fourth quarter and this many people, and we're going to do this, and blah, blah, blah, it's going to help us, blah, blah, blah. And our mind is like, way, if you allow me, I can put those words in the right order. I can pick a better word there. I can help you realize that you actually didn't need to say this part. It was already conveyed. But that'll only happen if your mind goes ahead of your mouth. So your mind is actually writing a script for your mouth to follow. That will only happen if you pots let your mind go. I do a test in my workshops where I don't prepare people for this. I say, tell me about the most interesting and fulfilling part of your job. Start now, but use as many pauses as you need to to let your mind script your mouth. And nine times out of ten, they come out with something that's very clear. Very few oz and ums, by the way, pauses is how you overcome Oz and ums, and very crisp, because they allowed their mind to script their mouth. Now, for an audience, they're hearing something for the first time. You've practiced it, you know it. It's your job. You've done it a million times. It could just come out of your mouth. Boom, boom, boom. For your audience. What do they need to do? They need to hear it, listen to it, apply it, digest it, assess it. Should I write this down? Does it apply to my work today? Should I tweet this? Meanwhile, while all this cognitive stuff is happening, you are six or seven sentences down the road that they didn't pay attention to. And some of those sentences were really important. So a pause would help address that problem by saying, we're going to focus on three areas. First, we're going to focus on how this affects our company. Allow it to digest. Allow them to think about it. Next, we're going to talk about how this affects our country. And finally, we're going to look at how this will affect people around the world. Stop. Let them digest. Let them think. Let them swallow. Now, let's begin. And you see how that time allows the audience to not just hear it, but really digest it. Really understand the point you're making and where you're about to go next. So if there's anything I want to leave your audience with, it's the power of pausing to enable you to speak with precision. And enable your audience to fully receive your point.

[36:43] Katie Stoddart: Fantastic. Thank you so much, Joel. I've learned a ton. I think it's so interesting, this effective, clear communication. First of all being clear in our minds, then communicating it clearly and that leads to greater leadership, greater relationships. Fantastic. Thank you. Fantastic. See, I do it.

[37:02] Joel Schwartzberg: We're all on learning journeys. We're all on learning journeys, so we're all trying to be better.

[37:07] Katie Stoddart: I think my awareness is sharp. Thank you so much for being on the show today.

[37:12] Joel Schwartzberg: Thank you, Kitty, it was a pleasure.

[37:20] Katie Stoddart: Thank you so much for tuning in today to the focus B show. I would absolutely love to hear your feedback. So let me know in an Apple review or YouTube comment what was most valuable for you. And feel free to share this episode with a friend or a family member. Wishing you a wonderful, magical and focused day ahead.